Moral dilemma with TiVo Lifetime Product Service

[lessd]

I would like this community’s comments on this situation with Lifetime Product Service

I purchased a TiVo (Series 2 540040) on E-Bay (on April 11th) that was listed as broken, I did not have pay much and all I wanted was some of the parts and accessories that came with the unit. I received the unit as described by the seller and gave her + E-Bay feedback.
On this form I had read that someone had purchased a TiVo at a thrift shop with no expectation of service and was thrilled to find his purchased TiVo had lifetime on it.
So for fun I called TiVo to see what the service status on my new TiVo was expecting it to be Account Closed, was I surprised when the TiVo CS person told me this TiVo had lifetime service on it. I asked if it could be put into my TiVo account and he said no problem and in less then 30 seconds there it was in my account with lifetime service. So over the next week and ½ I spent my time and money fixing the unit got it working great with lifetime showing up on the TiVo. My wife and I decided to give this one to my daughter as a present for her cellar that just got fixed up (it will be her third TiVo). I ordered the TiVo G adapter got it in and all worked great. I Called TiVo to Xfer to my daughters TiVo account, no problem the unit went from my account to hers. On Friday last (April 28th) I did a final check before packing it up to take to her home and the service status on the TiVo had gone to NEW !!! Called TiVo and was told by a supervisor that the owner of this TiVo had thought she owned the lifetime service and now wanted it Xfered to her new TiVo and that I had not bought the lifetime service from her, only the TiVo itself (true), she made such a fuss that they gave her back the lifetime service and put it on her new TiVo and took it from me !! The supervisor said that TiVo can make an exception any time they want because its their Co. not mine and unless I could prove that I had bought the lifetime service from this person I am SOL. (I have since negotiated a semi solution but its not that TiVo will give me back the lifetime on the original TiVo it was on)

Am I in the wrong in thinking that TiVo should not be able to take away the lifetime on this TiVo (after two weeks) from me without even talking to me after all the fuss that been made that lifetime is on the product not on the person.

Comments….

[greg_burns]

That's nuts. Lifetime goes with the box.

[Einselen]

greg already covered it, but I am surprised that TiVo gave the original owner back lifetime. You said it was a S2 so it is not a unit that could of been grandfathered in. TiVo from my unserstanding has stood firm about lifetime is with the box, not the person, so when you bought the box you should be the rightful owner of lifetime even if you did not "make a deal" to buy lifetime as well. This is odd and I would like to be kept updated as I am gussing so would others in the forum.

[jmoak]

(I have since negotiated a semi solution but its not that TiVo will give me back the lifetime on the original TiVo it was on)Dude, you got screwed.from tivo.com: (http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv2087.htm?)
Product Lifetime Service accompanies the DVR, not the owner.
:(

[Einselen]

My question is how does TiVo expect you to prove you also purchased the lifetime from her? A signed notarized contract? Something seems fishy about this entire post, either some details or missing/incorrect or the supervisor and CSR you talked to are doing something wrong.

The only way I have heard the subscription being transferred to another box is if the owner purchased an extended warranty from the retailer and had to recently get the box replaced then TiVo will transfer the subscription but it has to be the same box. Since you did buy the old box, the same one that the retailer would have taken to give the replacement box, then I don't think this applies, but that is the only way I have heard of a transfer of lifetime (besides the grandfathered pre 2000 rule).

[Turtleboy]

That's horrible. Just because the moron who sold it to you didn't understand how it works, there's no reason to punish you for it.

[tomm1079]

this does not sound right. Cause if we really wanted now everyone can use this case as a proof of transfer and have thier life transfered to a new box. I hope Pony or someone else gets on this and gives us some information

[lessd]

Dude, you got screwed.
:(

To a great degree Yes because its going cost me more money next week if I accept, I am thinking about it now.

OH and there nothing missing in what I have posted, the woman did not understand that lifetime went with the box so TiVo made an exception for her, she did not try to commit any fraud (unless she knowing pulled this off to get lifetime Xfered onto a S2 DT, but I don't think so).

[jmoak]

Send an email to TiVoOpsMgr, estephen@tivo.com describing just what you've posted here.

Bless your heart, this is just not right. When it comes to lifetime service, this has been their mantra since I've first heard about tivo:.from tivo.com: (http://customersupport.tivo.com/knowbase/root/public/tv2087.htm?)
Product Lifetime Service accompanies the DVR, not the owner.Send Steven an email and I'll bet he'll make it right for you.

Let us know what happens. Good Luck!!!
:)

btw,
Keep in mind that any deal they made with the old owner has no bearing on you or your situation. There is suppose to be no way to seperate the lifetime service from the box unless you've got a box that's grandfathered in on the "One Transfer Allowed" deal (and that is only for the very old series one boxes bought before some date in '00), if the box has gone back to tivo for repair and replacement or if the box is less than 30 days old.

[Einselen]

To a great degree Yes because its going cost me more money next week if I accept, I am thinking about it now.

OH and there nothing missing in what I have posted, the woman did not understand that lifetime went with the box so TiVo made an exception for her, she did not try to commit any fraud (unless she knowing pulled this off to get lifetime Xfered onto a S2 DT, but I don't think so).

Do you know when she bought the TiVo? She could do the bait and switch scam where you are allowed to trasnfer lifetime within the first 30 days. Odd since the TiVo was broken, but how was it broken? Usually these scams are done with a new box, that is said to be lifetimed and then they switch the lifetime, but maybe the scammers are getting fancier, why I do not know. Maybe she didn't mean to scam you.

Also if you don't mind me asking, what is the new deal to get the lifetime? Also what did you buy the TiVo on eBay for and what did you have to do to it to get it working?

[Turtleboy]

I'm not sure you have a moral dilemma. You bought a Tivo that has liftetime service on it. It's been made clear over and over again that lifetime stays with the box. You should get what you paid for (even if you didn't pay for it).

[nrc]

It's wrong for TiVo to hammer into the ground the fact that Lifetime service stays with the box and turn around an make an exception and claim that you have the burden of proving that you did not purchase the box expecting that the lifetime service would come with it. The burden of proof should lie with the seller, who is the one seeking an exception to the norm.

[tazzftw]

Call them back and demand the lifetime service. Just because she screwed up, doesn't mean that you should be out of luck.

[lessd]

Do you know when she bought the TiVo? She could do the bait and switch scam where you are allowed to trasnfer lifetime within the first 30 days. Odd since the TiVo was broken, but how was it broken? Usually these scams are done with a new box, that is said to be lifetimed and then they switch the lifetime, but maybe the scammers are getting fancier, why I do not know. Maybe she didn't mean to scam you.

Also if you don't mind me asking, what is the new deal to get the lifetime? Also what did you buy the TiVo on eBay for and what did you have to do to it to get it working?

This was not a bait and switch, the tiVo was well used from 2005 I think, was not in an original box and the CS person said she made a BIG BIG fuss that the 30 day deal would not have required of her.

I don't want to answer the any questions about the deal now on the table until I go through this step as I really don't want to put any more money in this project which this deal would require and maybe using this form and the OPs mgr can make me whole again.

How I fixed the TiVo is not relevant and what I paid is also not part of this problem except to say I did nothing to the main circuit board that has the TSN number encoded on it.

[ChuckyBox]

Just because she screwed up, doesn't mean that you should be out of luck.
Agreed. TiVo's actions with respect to this woman have absolutely no bearing on you or your box. You bought a box with lifetime service, and you should get lifetime service on that box.

[lajohn27]

No.. she bought a broken TIVO.. with no service representation whatsoever. .. A TIVO which the owner may have replaced with the exact model & make (* per TIVO's lifetime options) and perhaps she had ordered a replacement unit from TIVO for that broken unit outside of warranty.

It's easy for everyone to judge in this forum.. but we only have one side of the story here and it's incomplete.

[lessd]

No.. she bought a broken TIVO.. with no service representation whatsoever. .. A TIVO which the owner may have replaced with the exact model & make (* per TIVO's lifetime options) and perhaps she had ordered a replacement unit from TIVO for that broken unit outside of warranty.

It's easy for everyone to judge in this forum.. but we only have one side of the story here and it's incomplete.

I am a he not a she and you are correct that I purchased this TiVo with no service representation whatsoever but this was not a case of TiVo Xfering her lifetime to an ordered replacement because if that were so why did TiVo tell me they made an exception (their words not mine) for her because she thought that lifetime was hers and had not sold it with the TiVo on E-Bay. The CS told me she wanted to upgrade her TiVo (whatever that means) an expected to use her lifetime on this new TiVo so after she made a BIG fuss (again their words not mine) they gave it to her. I did not know that you could order a new TiVo from TiVo and have your lifetime Xfered to the new one anyways. If she sent the old back for repair that's a different story but if she did that how did she end up still having it to sell to me (sent them the wrong unit) give me a break?

There is no part of this story that incomplete as I have told everything from my side of having the box. The question is why should I take this loss (of time and money repairing the box) no matter what her real story was to TiVo (that is if TiVo did not tell it to me correctly). The box had lifetime on it for two weeks that a fact, the TiVo CS person Xfered the TiVo with lifetime to my account, that a fact; what else matters. Oh: I did not steal the box out of her home.

[lessd]

[QUOTE=jmoak]Send an email to TiVoOpsMgr, estephen@tivo.com describing just what you've posted here.

I just took your advice and did that

Thanks

[Test]

...you are correct that I purchased this TiVo with no service representation whatsoever...

dude, you dont have to say that, TIVO themselves are the ones that set the rules with the service...so as far as you were concerned you were buying the box PLUS whatever service was on it, be it monthly or lifetime...

like it was posted earlier, TIVO says LIFETIME gooooooooooes with the box...now you bought the box, wheres the lifetime? if they want to make an acception and give her lifetime on the new box, let them. Like the supervisor said, "TiVo can make an exception any time they want because its their Co. not mine"...haha but it shouldn't effect the box or its lifetime

and as far as the two sides to the story, your right and that is why tivo should handle it as such...instead of just killing the lifetime and giving it to the lady

[MoneyMINTR]

You said the Tivo had lifetime for only 2 weeks? If that's the case then the original owner still owns the lifetime and can transfer to any box that she pleases.

I mean, you paid for a broken tivo that's all that you paid for. Use it for spare parts and be happy with it.

[OldTownTreadles]

You said the Tivo had lifetime for only 2 weeks? If that's the case then the original owner still owns the lifetime and can transfer to any box that she pleases.

I mean, you paid for a broken tivo that's all that you paid for. Use it for spare parts and be happy with it.

Actually, he said that the lifetime that he transferred to his name was activated in his name for two weeks. He didn't say or probably know how long the seller had used it with lifetime before they broke it.

I followed that auction too, and I think he paid more than I would for a parts machine. Granted, when I buy parts machines, I'm usually buying old sewing machines, AND I usually wind up repairing them, not using them as parts. When you buy something that is broken, if you repair it, you should have all of its functionality.

And if Lifetime is attached to the unit, it should be attached to the unit no matter what the circumstances. Even if the previous owner put the unit on freecycle. Or, if the lifetime is attached to the purchaser, then the purchaser should be able to transfer it to any Tivo they please, at any time they please. And this policy should apply to any Tivo with lifetime. One way or another. However, in that case, they should be required to disclose to any purchaser that the unit, although activated with lifetime, is not being sold with the lifetime attached to the unit.

You know, something like this could get really complicated with all the Tivo units being sold on ebay.

[lessd]

You said the Tivo had lifetime for only 2 weeks? If that's the case then the original owner still owns the lifetime and can transfer to any box that she pleases.

I mean, you paid for a broken tivo that's all that you paid for. Use it for spare parts and be happy with it.
\
I had the TiVo for two weeks with lifetime she had lifetime on that TiVo long before that (may have been 7 months as I don't know). You should also read the full post as I spent time and money because TiVo told me I had lifetime. Who would have said "I will just use this lifetime TiVo for parts because that all I paid for". This had nothing to do with the 30 day Xfer or TiVo would not have called it an exception besides who puts lifetime on a old broken unit sell it on E-Bay then asks to Xfer the lifetime. I had lifetime for two weeks because TiVo did not think that it should be hers, only after she made a big fuss because she thought the lifetime service was hers separate from the TiVo itself did TiVo change their minds about making an exception and giving her the lifetime back on another upgraded TiVo, that where the two weeks I got came from.

[lessd]

And if Lifetime is attached to the unit, it should be attached to the unit no matter what the circumstances. Even if the previous owner put the unit on freecycle. Or, if the lifetime is attached to the purchaser, then the purchaser should be able to transfer it to any Tivo they please, at any time they please. And this policy should apply to any Tivo with lifetime. One way or another. However, in that case, they should be required to disclose to any purchaser that the unit, although activated with lifetime, is not being sold with the lifetime attached to the unit.

You know, something like this could get really complicated with all the Tivo units being sold on ebay.

An if the lifetime that belonged to someone was not taken off the new owner could not activate the TiVo in his account. I purchased a TiVo once years ago that had monthly service on it, the person did not cancel his automatic payments, it was about three months before I got my network up and running and had to E-Mail this person two or three times to cancel his service so I could put lifetime on the TiVo and use MRV.

I think this lifetime miss-understanding by many people may be another reason TiVo stopped making it available as this type of stuff must be a real pain for them.

[dtreese]

If they transferred somebody else's lifetime for being belligerent, what's to stop us all from raising hell until they give us lifetime series 3's?

[lessd]

If they transferred somebody else's lifetime for being belligerent, what's to stop us all from raising hell until they give us lifetime series 3's?

Because your smart enough and have morals to know that lifetime is on the TiVo not the person but I guess all the lifetime customers could play dumb sell their lifetime TiVos on E-Bay saying that lifetime you will see on you new purchase does not come with the unit as it belongs to me, then call TiVo and say I just got my new S3 and sold my S2 and the person who purchased it knew they were not getting my lifetime (and did not pay for it) so I want to now put my lifetime that was on that S2 on my new S3.

Will that work ??

[jfh3]

It's wrong for TiVo to hammer into the ground the fact that Lifetime service stays with the box and turn around an make an exception and claim that you have the burden of proving that you did not purchase the box expecting that the lifetime service would come with it. The burden of proof should lie with the seller, who is the one seeking an exception to the norm.

Bingo.

The CSR that talked to the original owner didn't know the rules that have been clearly stated in the Terms of Service for years.

If things are as the OP stated, Tivo was flat out wrong.

And, quite frankly, it seems like the eBay seller committed fraud.

[MatrixOutsider]

Agreed. TiVo's actions with respect to this woman have absolutely no bearing on you or your box. You bought a box with lifetime service, and you should get lifetime service on that box.

Yes, what tivo did behind the scenes is not his concern (this is the point). This is because he did not enter a transaction that allowed him to trade funds for a lifetime box. So, having the sub taken away from him when he should not have had it in the first place is equal to the original transaction.

[lessd]

Yes, what tivo did behind the scenes is not his concern (this is the point). This is because he did not enter a transaction that allowed him to trade funds for a lifetime box. So, having the sub taken away from him when he should not have had it in the first place is equal to the original transaction.

Under what rule of TiVo gives them the right to tell me I have lifetime on a TiVo I purchased that now gives me the incentive to try to fix this unit, after I am able to fix it by spending time and money I otherwise would not have spent then take lifetime away because I did not specifically pay for it (how they would know is another good question) if in fact the lifetime goes with the TiVo not the person who paid for it. A good question for MatrixOutsider is; the TiVo CS did not ask me if I paid for lifetime he just said I had it so sir should every lifetime TiVo come with a Certificate of proof of Lifetime ownership ? Then at least no ti-key no Lifetime. That not what TiVo has in their rules.

[lessd]

Bingo.

And, quite frankly, it seems like the eBay seller committed fraud.

I do not think seller committed any fraud she just did not understand that lifetime went with the broken TiVo she sold me not her. So TiVo gave her an exception on lifetime ownership and put me SOL on my repair job.

[gastrof]

Am I in the wrong in thinking that TiVo should not be able to take away the lifetime on this TiVo (after two weeks) from me without even talking to me after all the fuss that been made that lifetime is on the product not on the person.

Comments….


They've told too many people "Lifetime goes with the box and can't be transferred".

Get a lawyer and sue.

I'm serious.

Lifetime stays with the box, and you are the owner. (Or your daughter is, now.)

TiVo messed with a box that YOU own, and now they should have to answer for that.

How's about a unique "theft of service" charge?

[gastrof]

To a great degree Yes because its going cost me more money next week if I accept, I am thinking about it now.

... the woman did not understand that lifetime went with the box so TiVo made an exception for her, she did not try to commit any fraud...

Maybe not, but TiVo did defraud YOU of a Lifetime classification that YOU owned, because it goes with the box.

That's like buying a used car, and when you bring it into the dealer for service, they remove the engine, saying the former owner wanted it back, and they gave in.

This isn't your problem. It's TiVo's. They robbed you of the LIFETIME plan attached to YOUR machine.

Don't pay them ANYTHING, and don't agree to ANYTHING they offer.

Tell them it's a restoration of LIFETIME to your box, or it's court. They stole from you.

[gastrof]

Yes, what tivo did behind the scenes is not his concern (this is the point). This is because he did not enter a transaction that allowed him to trade funds for a lifetime box. So, having the sub taken away from him when he should not have had it in the first place is equal to the original transaction.


Dead wrong.

Unless something goes wrong with a LIFETIME box shortly after purchase, the LIFETIME stays with the box.

PERIOD.

She sold the box, she sold the LIFETIME.

It was still on the machine and hadn't been taken off it until around the time the OP gave it to his daughter. (And don't forget the amount of time that'd passed while he was fixing the box up.)

Now, after he's got it up and running, all of a sudden the former owner tells TiVo she wants "her" LIFETIME service on her new machine...

Which TiVo says you can't do.

Then they went and did it.

The LIFETIME service goes with the box. Period. It was his (or his daughter's), didn't belong to the box's former owner any more because the box had been sold.

TiVo violated their own rules by taking the service off a box THEY didn't own and SHE didn't own, but the OP (or his dauther) DID own.

[lessd]

Maybe not, but TiVo did defraud YOU of a Lifetime classification that YOU owned, because it goes with the box.

That's like buying a used car, and when you bring it into the dealer for service, they remove the engine, saying the former owner wanted it back, and they gave in.

This isn't your problem. It's TiVo's. They robbed you of the LIFETIME plan attached to YOUR machine.

Don't pay them ANYTHING, and don't agree to ANYTHING they offer.

Tell them it's a restoration of LIFETIME to your box, or it's court. They stole from you.

I like your engine example. This issue not a court case as I am hoping I can find some common ground with TiVo about this. I thought that when a TiVo goes poof the lifetime goes poof also unless its under warranty and sent back for repair. TiVo said somewhere in their terms about the fact that that nobody knows what the life of the product will be and your lifetime service is dependent on that life. Had the mother board been fried the unit could not have been fixed (by me) and the lifetime should have gone poof with the unit otherwise TiVo will never be able to rid themselves of lifetime service over the years.

[jfh3]

I do not think seller committed any fraud she just did not understand that lifetime went with the broken TiVo she sold me not her. So TiVo gave her an exception on lifetime ownership and put me SOL on my repair job.

I don't buy that the seller didn't know - it was a Series 2 box. EVERY Series 2 box had the "product lifetime service" disclaimer on the box and in the doc.

Whether the seller knew or not, the Tivo CSR should've known and they shouldn't have done what they did.

Get Tivo or the seller to make it right by you and don't think twice about it.
You were wronged, plain and simple.

[MatrixOutsider]

Why didn't you notify the seller of her error?

(I don't think you can answer this ethically)

[NewYorkLaw]

There's no moral issue. You had a contract with the seller. You gave and she accepted your consideration (money). You got more than you bargained for, let's call it a gift of lifetime service, which you confirmed with Tivo. You relied on this information to your detriment by repairing the unit. Tivo should either 1) restore your lifetime service, or 2) reimburse you for the expenses you incured as a result of their giving away your lifetime service.

If you bought a painting at a yard sale for $5 and then sold it to a museum for $1 million, would you owe anything to the yard sale seller, who did not know its true value? Could anyone force you to give it back? I don't think so.

It happened: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/gate/archive/2004/03/04/MNpainting.

Tivo should not be playing judge & jury!

Pete

[TiVoEvan74]

Ethically, on the yard sale example, you should owe money to the person, especially if you knew what you were buying and they didn't. It's called honor and integrity. And, yes, that's different from capitalism and profit-seeking or whatever the law asserts.

On the TiVo case in question, had I received the box and, unexpectedly, discovered lifetime was on it, I would have contacted the original owner and said "Say, did you realize that...?" and if they hadn't, and wanted it back, would have sent it back (after receiving my $ back--and their paying for shipping).

But once it's been registered as lifetime to Les, well then, TiVo should honor that. If they feel they want to help the original owner, then they should give her the lifetime (though why they'd do that is beyond me!) and NOT take it away from Les.

TiVo's CSR messed up royally. In fact, TiVo should have said to the woman, tough luck, contact the buyer and see what you can work out. I'll bet that had that happened and the woman contacted Les, he would have sold it back to her for the same $ plus his expenses.

In the meantime, TiVo needs to restore lifetime to his daughter's machine. In fact, Les should call back with his sob story-- fixed it up, gave it to his daughter as a present, and now they've taken lifetime away!

[ZeoTiVo]

How I fixed the TiVo is not relevant and what I paid is also not part of this problem except to say I did nothing to the main circuit board that has the TSN number encoded on it.

You are correct - the only relevant information here is that the original TSN is intact and did in fact have Lifetime attached to it.

TiVo inc's terms of service clearly state that the lifetime subscription goes with that TSN where ever the TSN goes. Especially on the 540 unit - all the manuals and so forth clearly show this. the only exception is a warranty repair of the unit which you were told did not happen in this case.

TiVo inc. is at fault for having taken the lifetime service, which you confirmed, from the TSN you now have in your possesion in clear violation of TiVo inc's terms of service. TiVo should restore lifetime service to your TSN and deal internally with the fact that a CSR gave away a lifetime the CSR had no right to give away.

The CSR who tried to weasel out with showing proof of sale on the lifetime aspect is as wrong as someone who would say you had to show a receipt from the yard sale for the million dollar painting.

[NewYorkLaw]

Ethically, on the yard sale example, you should owe money to the person, especially if you knew what you were buying and they didn't. It's called honor and integrity.
I agree, if the buyer KNEW what he was getting. In the true story, the buyer did not.

On the TiVo case in question, had I received the box and, unexpectedly, discovered lifetime was on it, I would have contacted the original owner and said "Say, did you realize that...?" and if they hadn't, and wanted it back, would have sent it back (after receiving my $ back--and their paying for shipping).
I agree that would be the right thing to do.

But once it's been registered as lifetime to Les, well then, TiVo should honor that. If they feel they want to help the original owner, then they should give her the lifetime (though why they'd do that is beyond me!) and NOT take it away from Les.

TiVo's CSR messed up royally. In fact, TiVo should have said to the woman, tough luck, contact the buyer and see what you can work out. I'll bet that had that happened and the woman contacted Les, he would have sold it back to her for the same $ plus his expenses.

I agree. Tivo had no right to "take a side" without gathering all the facts and without giving Les a chance to know what was going on. OBVIOUSLY, they knew the box had been re-registered by SOMEONE. Why they would simply turn off his lifetime service without even a courtesy call is beyond me.

Pete

[RoyK]

Seems pretty straightforward to me. Les bought the box. It had lifetime service. Lifetime Service is attached to the box. Lifetime has value - at least $299.

Tivo took lifetime from him. Tivo appropriated his property without his permission. That is theft!

In Virginia theft of property of value more than $200 is Grand Larceny.

[lajohn27]

Clearly Les thought his good luck was 'too unlikely', otherwise he wouldn't have taken the step of confirm that lifetime was still on the box before shipping it.

The seller made a mistake. A mistake that TIVO didn't feel she should pay for. Les got exactly what he bought - the contract was for a broken TIVO - and he got a broken TIVO.

That Les thought he got more when he didn't was unfortunate. But proper and ethical communication with the seller would have cleared up any confusion that Les had about what he had purchased, thus eliminating him incurring 'time and expense' of refurbing the box under false pretenses. (And really.. how much could that be worth? Sounds like a simple HD replacement to me.. hardly a large expense)

The fact that he chose to rely on third party (and TIVO * is * a third party here) information as to what he had purchased, was his choice; and I think an incorrect one. He should have contacted the seller to confirm his purchase.

We all know that exceptions can be made in exceptional circumstances to have Lifetime shifted around to please customers. This very forum is LITTERED with examples of 'exceptions' from TIVO customer service, when exceptional circumstances warranted. Some of the very posters in this thread who are so quick to blame TIVO have benefitted from those exceptions on occasion (anybody get a partial refund on HomeMediaOption?).

Back to this situation, Les feels cheated. Well.. had he contacted the original seller in an ethical and honest manner, he would not be in this situation.

AND, let's not all forget, he DOES have a functioning TIVO now.. all he has to do is subscribe it.

John

[MoneyMINTR]

So, a couple of facts.

1. Buyer paid more than he should have for a broken tivo.
2. Buyer finds out that broken Tivo has lifetime (aside: are you sure you didn't know this before hand?) So, he got a great deal.
3. Seller knew that she had lifetime on her broken tivo and wants to transfer it to a new tivo.
4. Tivo transfers the lifetime back to eBay seller.
5. Buyer is now upset that he paid too much for a broken tivo (aside: why would you pay so much for a broken tivo? Unless you knew it had lifetime?)


Arbritration:

How about returning the tivo to the eBayer seller and getting your money back. That way there's no harm done. Except that you wasted your time fixing the Tivo. The only reason why you would want to keep it is to fight for the "free" lifetime.

[davezatz]

Assuming we have all the facts... which I'm not sure of... The dude bought a TiVo which had Lifetime. The amount he paid, who he bought it from, what was communicated, what he did to restore it, when he called, all seem irrelvent to me. TiVo has always said Lifetime stays with a box. So if TiVo removed Lifetime from his box they are in the wrong and should restore his service... assuming we know the whole story.

[TriBruin]

Not much to add here, other than I agree that Tivo should NOT have taken away the lifetime in this box. Whether lessed "knew" he was buying a Lifetime box ahead of time is not material. When it was confirmed that Lifetime was on the box and he was in possesion of the box, then he owns the lifetime, end of story.

IF Tivo wanted to be nice to a customer with a mistaken understanding of Lifetime service, they could have chosen to give the customer's new Tivo Lifetime server WITHOUT disabling Lifetime on the original box.

I will be interested in seeing what happens here.

[lessd]

Some of you think I should have contacted the seller when I found out the box had lifetime which was after I received the box. (read the first post). It was a non working box and if it could not be fixed the lifetime had no value (or should have had no value because it goes with the box, that's how TiVo will eventually get rid of lifetime boxes when lifetime TiVos are beyond repair). If I had found her diamond ring in the packing material I sure would have told her and sent it back at no charge to her. I don't think she wanted the box back just the lifetime and if she had contacted me after I won the bid to tell me the box had lifetime on it and she was going to work TiVo over to get put an another box I would have waited to see how she made out with TiVo. If she were unsuccessfully with TiVo and asked me to try to fix her box so she could have it back I would have tried and in this case given the TiVo back to her at only my cost. I would not have tried to take advantage of her if she contacted ME. I got just what I paid for (before I called TiVo) why would I contact her. It would have been a lot less trouble for me to have never contacted TiVo and just use the TiVo as I planed which begs the question was I morally wrong to have called TiVo about this unit? The guy with the 1 mill painting if he liked it should have just hung it on his wall and never tried to find out that it was not a fake but the real thing. I don't pretend to have all the answers to this moral dilemma.
Readers of this post should assume that my side of the story is correct because why post a fake story with bad information for input from this TiVo community. Somebody assumed I may of known about the lifetime on the unit before I purchased it, the buyer could have informed me of this but if I had left that part out, the total post would have been stupid on my part.

[Einselen]

Not much to add here, other than I agree that Tivo should NOT have taken away the lifetime in this box. Whether lessed "knew" he was buying a Lifetime box ahead of time is not material. When it was confirmed that Lifetime was on the box and he was in possesion of the box, then he owns the lifetime, end of story.

IF Tivo wanted to be nice to a customer with a mistaken understanding of Lifetime service, they could have chosen to give the customer's new Tivo Lifetime server WITHOUT disabling Lifetime on the original box.

I will be interested in seeing what happens here.

I agree. If tivo wants to give the seller lifetime go ahead, but since the lifetime was already transfered to les then les should have it as well, not stripped from him. It would be a different situation if les never did transfer the lifetime into his account.

On the ethics issue I think I would have been with les and if I found out the box had lifetime I don't think I would think to call/contact the seller and tell them. I would assume (which is not the best case) that the seller had a broken lifetime tivo, got their use of it and wanted to sell it as they did not want to mess with the repair. Yes, lifetime was not mentioned in the auction, but just maybe it was a point which the seller thought the tivo was beyond repair and therefore could only be used for parts. Les took it and found that he could repair it working condition again.

Question for les again, what repair had to be done? Was it a simple hard drive upgrade that someone not at all technical would not know you could fix or was it more such as possibly repairing the power supply?

[greg_burns]

I see an analogous thing happening on eBay currently. There are a lot of Liftetime Series 1 being listed and the owners seem to be clueless about their "grandfathering" status. Buyers are questioning the sellers about the activation dates without giving reasons why. :down:

So, if somebody wins a grandfatherable Series 1 should they go back and inform the seller of the fact? Offer them more money for their ignorance? I think not.

[NewYorkLaw]

X purchases a broken widget from Y. X thinks he will use the widget for parts. Unbeknownst to Y, X calls manufacturer and discovers the widget is still under a manufacturer's warranty for repair. X has the widget serviced and restored to working order by manufacturer free of charge.

Is X unjustly enriched? Does X owe Y anything? Does manufacturer owe Y anything?

In the situation at hand, even if this is a "mutual mistake," the tivo seller should have dealt with Les and not directly with Tivo - and Tivo should not have gotten in the middle.

I am surprised that Tivo, in transfering a lifetime subscription (for whatever reason), does not require the return of the "broken" tivo. I am also surprised that in lieu of the fact that the "broken" tivo was actually in service, they allowed the transfer of its service at all.

Pete

[Joeg180]

I sold a non-grandfathered series 1 on ebay. I advertised with the lifetime as soon as the auction concluded I contactreed TiVo to transfer that subscription and TSN into the new owners name.

If the previous owner was unaware of the policy that is not LessD's fault. If TiVo wanted to be kind to the seller then award her a lifetime on the new TiVo they hae. TiVo should reinstated the Lifetime on the box in LessD's possesion.

Prior to listing my unit on eBay I called TiVo to make sure that I was correct and I could transfer the Unit w/ sub to another owner.

I would request that the sub be reinstated on this system, it was listed on your account for two weeks while you were repairing the unit.

Good luck!

[ZeoTiVo]

I am surprised that Tivo, in transfering a lifetime subscription (for whatever reason), does not require the return of the "broken" tivo. I am also surprised that in lieu of the fact that the "broken" tivo was actually in service, they allowed the transfer of its service at all.

Pete

yes, basically the CSR did the wrong thing and TiVo needs to rectify that mistake.

The only ethical choice Les should have to make is that if TiVo decides to rescind the Lifetime they gave the seller and put it back on the TiVo Les now has(or his Sister has) should he contact the seller and tell her the cost of repair and his shipping the box back. les has already said he would.

If the seller had done the right thing and let Les know what was going on then he would not be in the situation he is in.


and most importantly - if the seller had just posted here before putting her TiVo on ebay she would have been given the right advice to do the right thing from the get go ;)

[Puppy76]

I totally agree with the majority here (also assuming we know everything…and I don’t know what else there is to know). This is the seller’s problem, and now Tivo’s because they transferred a Lifetime subscription away from the owner of the box, and totally against all their policies.

It doesn’t matter how much the seller complained to Tivo, it’s clearly against Tivo’s policy to transfer lifetime. The fact that the seller (supposedly) didn’t know what the hey she was doing doesn’t change that. Tivo had the option of either informing her of their policy, or if for some reason they wanted to give her another free Lifetime sub, they had that option too. They did NOT have the option to steal lifetime from the legitimate owner and transfer it back to the old owner.

Tivo obviously owes you the lifetime sub for the box, regardless of what they want to do with the original seller.

The original seller may be a scam artist, or she may just be ignorant. Neither gives an excuse for being allowed to steal a subscription from it’s owner.

[RoyK]

yes, basically the CSR did the wrong thing and TiVo needs to rectify that mistake.


The only ethical choice Les should have to make is that if TiVo decides to rescind the Lifetime they gave the seller and put it back on the TiVo Les now has(or his Sister has) should he contact the seller and tell her the cost of repair and his shipping the box back. les has already said he would.

If the seller had done the right thing and let Les know what was going on then he would not be in the situation he is in.


and most importantly - if the seller had just posted here before putting her TiVo on ebay she would have been given the right advice to do the right thing from the get go ;)

TiVo absolutely must restore the Lifetime to where it belongs -- the current owner of the box -- Les.

If Les is generous enough to offer to return the box to the seller in exchange for reimbursement of his cost kudos to him. However there wouldn't be anything in the least unethical in his choosing to keep the box. He did nothing to defraud the seller. He met the seller's conditions and the box is his to do with as he chooses. Its called finding a bargain.

As to the seller posting here - you're right Zeo. But most owners have no idea that this forum even exists.

Roy

[Sirshagg]

Based on What Les has posed it seems that the TiVo rep was completely wrong. They could certainly give the original owner lifetime if they want but taking the lifetime away from the box Les bought was WRONG. Lifetime goes with the box - period.

[SMWinnie]

X purchases a broken widget from Y. X thinks he will use the widget for parts. Unbeknownst to Y, X calls manufacturer and discovers the widget is still under a manufacturer's warranty for repair. X has the widget serviced and restored to working order by manufacturer free of charge.

Is X unjustly enriched? Does X owe Y anything? Does manufacturer owe Y anything?

In the situation at hand, even if this is a "mutual mistake," the tivo seller should have dealt with Les and not directly with Tivo - and Tivo should not have gotten in the middle.

I am surprised that Tivo, in transfering a lifetime subscription (for whatever reason), does not require the return of the "broken" tivo. I am also surprised that in lieu of the fact that the "broken" tivo was actually in service, they allowed the transfer of its service at all.
Oooh! Contracts! Let's beat this to death.

M is a manufacturer of widgets. Widgets are useless in and of themselves without the use of doohickeys, which are only available from M. M provides doohickeys at no charge for use with Class A widgets and charges a substantial fee for doohickeys for use with Class B widgets. Class A widgets sell at a substantial premium to Class B widgets.

The favored doohickey status of a Class A widget with respect to a Class B widget is tied to the specific widget. The owner of a Class A widget may sell the widget to another person and M will continue to supply doohickeys for that Class A widget. The owner of a Class A widget may not transfer the favored doohickey status to another widget except in specific circumstances. The terms under which M supplies widgets are publicly available and include the following clause:

"XIII. Doohickeys-for-Life. "Doohickeys-for-Life" from M covers the life of the Class A widget you buy – not the life of the subscriber. "Doohickeys-for-Life" accompanies the Class A widget in case of ownership transfer. "Doohickeys-for-Life" remains in effect if the Class A widget needs to be repaired or replaced due to a malfunction (see manufacturer or retailer warranty details) or even if you upgrade your Class A widget to make delicious, healthy smoothies (though such upgrades, if not performed by M or a third party authorized by M, will void the warranty on your Class A widget and constitute a breach of this Agreement). Because "Doohickeys-for-Life" is linked to a particular Class A widget, you may not transfer it to any other widget unless all the following conditions apply: (a) the widget is being replaced pursuant to the manufacturer's or retailer's warranty; and (b) the widget being replaced is of the same make and model as the replacement widget; and (c) you provide us with a proof of replacement by M or other retailer. M reserves the right to charge you a fee to transfer "Doohickeys-for-Life" from a widget being replaced to a replacement widget. Each widget purchased requires its own doohickeys. Of course, hardware products don’t last forever and their [lifespans] will vary. M makes no warranties or representations as to the expected lifetime of the widget (aside from the manufacturer’s or retailer’s warranty)."

Y purchases a Class A widget, which fails early in its service life. (We suspect that Y's widget died young because this is a "540" series widget.) Apparently, Y believes the widget to be irreparable. Just for fun, we will call this widget "Rose."

Broken widgets have salvage value. They can be cannibalized for spare parts, make excellent doorstops and suitable boat anchors.

Y offers Rose for sale at auction and X purchases it for an amount that would be about right for salvage and very low for a functioning Class A widget.

X discovers that Rose is a broken Class A widget and also discovers that it is reparable. After confirming with M that Rose is a Class A widget, X expends time and expense in what turns out to be a successful attempt to repair Rose.

Meanwhile, Y is cheesed off at M because Rose broke down so quickly and the free doohickeys during Rose's short service life didn't come close to covering the extra amount that Y paid for Rose compared to what Y would have paid for a Class B widget. Y, presumably without knowledge of what X is doing, gets M to set aside its Clause XIII rules and treat Y's new Class B widget as a Class A widget.

M stops supplying doohickeys to Rose. X goes to a group of widget enthusiasts to determine what rights he has and whether he did anything wrong.

[Test]

uh that looks like it took a while to write up...

arent widgets what jetson made?

ANY update from the party thats been wronged?

[RoyK]

uh that looks like it took a while to write up...

arent widgets what jetson made?

ANY update from the party thats been wronged?

Believe he made sprockets.

[PeteEMT]

Lifetime goes with the box.

Matter of fact TiVoOpsMgr posted here that when buying a TiVo off eBay the best practice is to immediately transfer it to your name so the previous owner can't touch the account.
(not an exact quote but close)

[Rocketslc]

arent widgets what jetson made?



George Jetson worked for Spacely Space Sprockets. Their competition was Cogswell Cogs..
:)

[jfh3]

George Jetson worked for Spacely Space Sprockets. Their competition was Cogswell Cogs..
:)

And to make this potentially relevant - Spacely had a lifetime guarantee, Cogswell didn't. :)

[RoyK]

And to make this potentially relevant - Spacely had a lifetime guarantee, Cogswell didn't. :)

Only for the lifetime of the sprocket, of course :)

[lessd]

Lifetime goes with the box.

Matter of fact TiVoOpsMgr posted here that when buying a TiVo off eBay the best practice is to immediately transfer it to your name so the previous owner can't touch the account.
(not an exact quote but close)

Did that, didn't work !!

Some of these posts are funny, maybe I will get my money worth in comedy using doohickeys A or was it B

[lajohn27]

Reading the widget/doohickey synopsis..

We don't know that which of those criteria were met or not met.

- Obviously she probably bought a 540 series unit.. Since the newer DT's are barely in the market yet. So the criteria that's it a 'same unit' was met.

- It's dubious that it was covered under a retailers extended warranty since they usually request the unit back.

- Proof of replacement would be easy - she would have a receipt for a replacement unit.

- We don't know what fee - if any - she paid to TIVO for the transfer.

Presuming her unit was under 12-16 months old, if I were her, I would fully expect TIVO to transfer my lifetime to another unit. AND I would raise old holy hell until they did.

[Sam FT]

Well I blame the seller the this. If you used eBay/Paypal and used a credit card. I would just do a chargeback on your credit card. Asked by ebay, credit card company, etc that you didn't get what you paid for.

[greg_burns]

Presuming her unit was under 12-16 months old, if I were her, I would fully expect TIVO to transfer my lifetime to another unit. AND I would raise old holy hell until they did.

And if I were Tivo, I would say "no problem, just send us your old box..."

[TiVoStephen]

Folks, we're now working on this issue with the original poster.

[lessd]

Folks, we're now working on this issue with the original poster.


I am the original poster so I am glad your now working on this and hope you be in touch with me soon.

Thanks for all moral support from this TiVo Community

[Barryrod]

I am the original poster so I am glad your now working on this and hope you be in touch with me soon.

Thanks for all moral support from this TiVo Community :p :p

[lew]

You bought a broken tivo for parts. You paid a price based on that representation. You got exactly what you paid for.

Tivo is certainly entitled to make excepctions to their lifetime policy and allow an owner to transfer the policy to a replacement unit.

Your complaint is for a two week period you thought you were getting more than you paid for and are now unhappy because you're getting exactly what you paid for.

The owner sold you the old unit for parts and at the same time persuaded tivo to make an exception.

If tivo reverses the transaction you'd be getting more than you paid for. The seller could have paid to the have the unit repaired and preserved his lifetime service instead he had tivo transfer the service and sold the old unit for parts.

[rainwater]

You bought a broken tivo for parts. You paid a price based on that representation.

AFAIK the original owner is entitled to the lifetime service, as long as tivo agreed to make the change.

How are they entitled to the lifetime service? If TiVo says that lifetime is tied to the box, then the original owner is not entitled to the lifetime service unless it falls under one of the exceptions (which it clearly doesn't in this case). However, the owner of the box is entitled to the lifetime service. Just because they made an exception and gave the original owner lifetime on another box doesn't mean that lifetime on the original box is discontinued. If it is, then TiVo broke their own service agreeement. Obviously, they are going to fix the situation now anyways.

[lew]

How are they entitled to the lifetime service? If TiVo says that lifetime is tied to the box, then the original owner is not entitled to the lifetime service unless it falls under one of the exceptions (which it clearly doesn't in this case). However, the owner of the box is entitled to the lifetime service. Just because they made an exception and gave the original owner lifetime on another box doesn't mean that lifetime on the original box is discontinued. If it is, then TiVo broke their own service agreeement. Obviously, they are going to fix the situation now anyways.


The seller became entitled to lifetime service when tivo decided to make an exception. Companies make exceptions to policies for goodwill all the time. I'd expect tivo to discontinue lifetime service on the old box as part of the transaction.

The buyer got exactly what he paid for. The issue of morality would come up if a seller sold a unit has having LS and then arranged to transfer service.

[rainwater]

The seller became entitled to lifetime service when tivo decided to make an exception. Companies make exceptions to policies for goodwill all the time. I'd expect tivo to discontinue lifetime service on the old box as part of the transaction.

The buyer got exactly what he paid for. The issue of morality would come up if a seller sold a unit has having LS and then arranged to transfer service.

So you are saying that TiVo can cancel any lifetime box at any time from a subscriber who didn't buy it directly from Tivo? I'm sorry, but that is not the case.

[Stormspace]

You bought a broken tivo for parts. You paid a price based on that representation. You got exactly what you paid for.

Tivo is certainly entitled to make excepctions to their lifetime policy and allow an owner to transfer the policy to a replacement unit.

Your complaint is for a two week period you thought you were getting more than you paid for and are now unhappy because you're getting exactly what you paid for.

The owner sold you the old unit for parts and at the same time persuaded tivo to make an exception.

If tivo reverses the transaction you'd be getting more than you paid for. The seller could have paid to the have the unit repaired and preserved his lifetime service instead he had tivo transfer the service and sold the old unit for parts.

IANAL, but the TiVo TOS is a contract and if the TiVo had lifetime on it, it cannot be taken away. Lifetime is for the box not the owner and as much as I'd like it to be otherwise TiVo can't just change their minds when they feel like it unless they also change the TOS. I'm glad opsmgr is working on it and hope Les gets the resolution he wants.

I also imagine that this is precisely why Lifetime went away. Too many issues revolving around it causing it to be a customer service nightmare.

[lessd]

You bought a broken tivo for parts. You paid a price based on that representation. You got exactly what you paid for.

Tivo is certainly entitled to make excepctions to their lifetime policy and allow an owner to transfer the policy to a replacement unit.

Your complaint is for a two week period you thought you were getting more than you paid for and are now unhappy because you're getting exactly what you paid for.

The owner sold you the old unit for parts and at the same time persuaded tivo to make an exception.

If tivo reverses the transaction you'd be getting more than you paid for. The seller could have paid to the have the unit repaired and preserved his lifetime service instead he had tivo transfer the service and sold the old unit for parts.

Sorry you feel that way as the TSN and lifetime is as one on a TiVo, and how does anybody know what a broken TiVo with Lifetime is worth on E-Bay I never saw one for sale, we know the that there is about $350 difference for a working TiVo with Lifetime but for a non working one is the difference $35 $3.50 ??. If the unit could not be fixed the difference should be $0.00. Somebody on this post thought I paid too much anyways for a non working TiVo without Lifetime.

[lew]

So you are saying that TiVo can cancel any lifetime box at any time from a subscriber who didn't buy it directly from Tivo? I'm sorry, but that is not the case.

Actually the OP already posted that

The supervisor said that TiVo can make an exception any time they want because its their Co. not mine and unless I could prove that I had bought the lifetime service from this person I am SOL. (I have since negotiated a semi solution but its not that TiVo will give me back the lifetime on the original TiVo it was on)

In this case there really isn't any dispute for tivo to mediate. The buyer wasn't buying a unit with LS, he was buying parts.

I'm saying tivo can correct the subscription status when a mistake was made and this unit wasn't supposed to have LS.

I might have a different answer if the seller sold the unit as having LS or even if the unit had LS for months but not 2 weeks.

I don't have the terms and conditions but I think it says something like tivo won't generally transfer service to a new unit. Tivo isn't prohibited from making exceptions.

Sorry but I think the OP is the party with moral issues, trying to get more than he paid for.

edited to add AFAIK tivo has always allowed the transfer of LS if the unit was swapped out as a warranty repair, a service contract change and for other reasons. This problem has come up in the past, a store selling a refurbished unit before tivo finished the transfer of LS. The moral issue comes up if the buyer was told LS was included with the unit.

In this case the buyer is trying to argue tivo had to no right to make an exception in order to get more than he paid for.

[lessd]

Actually the OP already posted that



In this case there really isn't any dispute for tivo to mediate. The buyer wasn't buying a unit with LS, he was buying parts.

I'm saying tivo can correct the subscription status when a mistake was made and this unit wasn't supposed to have LS.

I might have a different answer if the seller sold the unit as having LS or even if the unit had LS for months but not 2 weeks.

I don't have the terms and conditions but I think it says something like tivo won't generally transfer service to a new unit. Tivo isn't prohibited from making exceptions.

Sorry but I think the OP is the party with moral issues, trying to get more than he paid for.

First read my first post I had lifetime for two weeks she could have had lifetime for 7 months or so on that TiVo. TiVo never told me that she went to put lifetime on her new TiVo and by mistake gave them the TSN of a broken TiVo she was selling, this was not the case if you read the total post.

[SeanC]

Les,

Don't worry about Lew, man. He is off on one SERIOUS tangent. Don't even bother yourself with what he's saying.

[RoyK]

Actually the OP already posted that



In this case there really isn't any dispute for tivo to mediate. The buyer wasn't buying a unit with LS, he was buying parts.

I'm saying tivo can correct the subscription status when a mistake was made and this unit wasn't supposed to have LS.

I might have a different answer if the seller sold the unit as having LS or even if the unit had LS for months but not 2 weeks.

I don't have the terms and conditions but I think it says something like tivo won't generally transfer service to a new unit. Tivo isn't prohibited from making exceptions.

Sorry but I think the OP is the party with moral issues, trying to get more than he paid for.


Doesn't wash. If it did then if I had lifetime on a box and wanted to transfer it to another then all I'd have to do is sell the old one to, say, my son for $1.00 "for parts", call TiVo, tell them I'd sold the box without LS and they would transfer my lifetime to a new box.

They'd do that when pigs fly...

[lew]

Les,

Don't worry about Lew, man. He is off on one SERIOUS tangent. Don't even bother yourself with what he's saying.

It's not a tangent, the moral issue is the person who is annoyed when he isn't getting more than he paid for.

I may be the only one in this thread who thinks the OP is one greedy dude.

[rainwater]

Actually the OP already posted that


I think everyone here said that what the CSR said was totally false. In no way does the OP have to prove anything. Tivo can't do anything just because its 'their company'. If that is the basis of your argument, I'm not sure what else there is to talk about.

[SeanC]

It's not a tangent, the moral issue is the person who is annoyed when he isn't getting more than he paid for.

I may be the only one in this thread who thinks the OP is one greedy dude.

There is no moral question here.

She sold, he bought, LT is tied to the box. Done.

[lessd]

TiVo just got back to me and agreed with the majority of posters LIFETIME GOES WITH THE TIVO IT'S ON, they have givin me Temp service on the unit until they can get the orignal lifetime back on this 540 unit.

Thanks to all of you

Les

[Einselen]

TiVo just got back to me and agreed with the majority of posters LIFETIME GOES WITH THE TIVO IT'S ON, they have givin me Temp service on the unit until they can get the orignal lifetime back on this 540 unit.

Thanks to all of you

Les

Congrats les, glad everything worked out for you. Now I only hope that TiVo does help out the seller in some way just as good business practice. Even if they give her lifetime (with only 4 years of rev) it is better then telling her tough luck because then she will tell at least 3 people the horror story of TiVo and how she lost her lifetime she paid for.

[jayportland]

TiVo just got back to me and agreed with the majority of posters LIFETIME GOES WITH THE TIVO IT'S ON, they have givin me Temp service on the unit until they can get the orignal lifetime back on this 540 unit.

Thanks to all of you

Les


Good for you! I'm glad you got your lifetime service.

Want to sell it?

[TiVoStephen]

I am the original poster so I am glad your now working on this and hope you be in touch with me soon.Just to clarify, I did e-mail you before posting here. :) Glad to see you post here to let folks know the resolution.

[NewYorkLaw]

I love a happy ending.

Pete

[Sirshagg]

TiVo just got back to me and agreed with the majority of posters LIFETIME GOES WITH THE TIVO IT'S ON, they have givin me Temp service on the unit until they can get the orignal lifetime back on this 540 unit.

Thanks to all of you

Les

As it should be. Thank you TiVo for putting this right. :up: :up: :up:

[Seattle]

Congrats Les. I now feel more secure about my five Tivos with lifetime.

[MoneyMINTR]

No, you're not the only one. Earlier in the thread, another member reported that he/she was following the same auction and noted that the ending price for a broken Tivo was rather high. So, I raised the question (rhetorical) why would someone would pay a higher market price for a tivo that was merely "broken." I'm sure we don't have both sides of the story.


RETURN the Tivo and make everyone happy. You'll sleep better too.


It's not a tangent, the moral issue is the person who is annoyed when he isn't getting more than he paid for.

I may be the only one in this thread who thinks the OP is one greedy dude.

[Test]

I love a happy ending.

Pete


happy for someone...some lady is gonna be awfully mad when she runs out of guide info...haha but im sure that wont happen, tivos pretty cool

congrats less

and just one final thing for me...

It's not a tangent, the moral issue is the person who is annoyed when he isn't getting more than he paid for.

he got what he paid for, a tivo box...that tivo box had lifetime on it and lifetime stays with the box...see the trouble ebay causes

[tazzftw]

TiVo just got back to me and agreed with the majority of posters LIFETIME GOES WITH THE TIVO IT'S ON, they have givin me Temp service on the unit until they can get the orignal lifetime back on this 540 unit.

Thanks to all of you

Les
Congrats

[ducker]

frankly it's a bummer for the person that sold the unit... but that's what you get if you don't do all your research.

The only reason I'd pick up a Tivo box at a Yard sale/ thriftstore/ ebay, would be in hopes that it might just have LS on it.

Otherwise why bother with an S2 540?

[lessd]

This unit is going to my daughter as planed

The other customer is not any of my business or should it be this boards business unless she posts on this board herself. We will never know what happened to her lifetime.


One more thing I want to say for those of you who wanted to know what it took to repair this unit, why would you need to know? Would you feel better if I had to take a day off from work with no pay, buy a power supply, front panel, and new HD, costing me say $400 total. Or would you be pissed at me if all that was broken was the line cord and I had an extra one in the house. It makes no difference as E-Bay is like the wild west and you don't know what your going get but within reason you can keep what you get. I gave you the exception of finding her diamond ring in the packing which I would have sent back because I did not buy a diamond I bought a TiVo and everything that the seller sends with the TiVo that goes with a TiVo even if its not listed as a separate item.

[Einselen]

One more thing I want to say for those of you who wanted to know what it took to repair this unit, why would you need to know?

Originally I wanted to know how much you put into it because I am a big numbers guy, I will look at numbers and work out details to see what works best.

The second time I asked was more not to know cost, but to figure out maybe if the seller thought it was past repair or if they were just not tech savvy like my mother would be, and wouldn't know that if the hard drive fails you could easily replace it.

[Lee L]

This unit is going to my daughter as planed

The other customer is not any of my business or should it be this boards business unless she posts on this board herself. We will never know what happened to her lifetime.




True. I will go out on a limb and say not to expect good feedback from her though. ;)

[lessd]

True. I will go out on a limb and say not to expect good feedback from her though. ;)

This E-Bay sale took place April 11th and I got + feedback from her and gave her + feedback as I did nothing bad to her, she sold a TiVo I won the bid and paid she shipped end of that E-Bay story. If anybody gets bad feedback from her it would be TiVo, I have never had any communication with her, I won the bid paid using PayPal got the unit. We have never exchanged any E-Mails about this lifetime thing or any other things.

At this point I don't know if anybody is upset, TiVo came through for me so I am happy I just got another E-Mail from TiVo that the unit is in my daughters TiVo account so she happy. That all the people I can speak to on this issue.

[MickeS]

It's not a tangent, the moral issue is the person who is annoyed when he isn't getting more than he paid for.

I may be the only one in this thread who thinks the OP is one greedy dude.

Yeah, you are. Greedy, because he got a good deal and had lifetime on it and it was taken away? AND EVERYTHING COMPLETELY LEGAL? What the hell are you smoking?

[terryfoster]

Please, somebody, anybody, can you close this thread?

[Rocketslc]

As with ALL eBay transactions two things apply

Caveat emptor - Let the buyer beware.

and

Caveat venditor - Let the seller beware

[ChuckyBox]

Please, somebody, anybody, can you close this thread?
No, no, let's discuss the ethics of Les giving this TiVo to his daughter while some poor, starving old lady has to go without. And what do people think about him just giving it to the girl? I mean, how is she ever going to become self-sufficient if he keeps giving her stuff she didn't earn? And why is she living in a basement? What's up with that?

[lessd]

No, no, let's discuss the ethics of Les giving this TiVo to his daughter while some poor, starving old lady has to go without. And what do people think about him just giving it to the girl? I mean, how is she ever going to become self-sufficient if he keeps giving her stuff she didn't earn? And why is she living in a basement? What's up with that?

Hay: my daughter lives in in a nice home with her husband that they own; it was the basement of her home where the TiVo is going:

And Lets end this thread as TiVo just gave me a phone call to personally apologize for all the fuss I had to go through and there going to talk to their CSRs about TiVo lifetime policies (The lady had the lifetime for 7 months and the unit was under warranty (parts only) and could have been fixed by TiVo for $50 so go figure why she did what she did)

[gastrof]

So, a couple of facts.

1. Buyer paid more than he should have for a broken tivo.
2. Buyer finds out that broken Tivo has lifetime (aside: are you sure you didn't know this before hand?) So, he got a great deal.
3. Seller knew that she had lifetime on her broken tivo and wants to transfer it to a new tivo.
4. Tivo transfers the lifetime back to eBay seller.
5. Buyer is now upset that he paid too much for a broken tivo (aside: why would you pay so much for a broken tivo? Unless you knew it had lifetime?)...

I LIKE this game!

Let's play again!

1) Buyer bought a TiVo, which according to their rules the LIFETIME service was attached to and couldn't be removed.

2) Buyer finds out machine has LIFETIME, confirms with TiVo, then proceeds to fix machine.

3) After some time (repairs of the machine took time) previous owner (who got the "any Lifetime applied is stuck to the box itself from then on" warning when she purchased) decides she wants to have Lifetime on her new machine, and complains to TiVo that she should be able to keep the Lifetime service from a machine she sold...which is now registered with TiVo as belonging to someone else.

4) TiVo violates their own rule of "Lifetime is attached to the machine and can't be transferred", and GIVES current owner's Lifetime status to the box's previous owner, who no longer had any say or rights in the matter.

5) Buyer is now the victim of fraud and theft, no longer having the Lifetime service plan which TiVo already registered in his name due to his being the new owner of the box....because TiVo's employee simply decided to break the rules and rip off the new owner.

There!

That was a FUN game!

Care to play again?

[gastrof]

You bought a broken tivo for parts. You paid a price based on that representation. You got exactly what you paid for.

Tivo is certainly entitled to make excepctions to their lifetime policy and allow an owner to transfer the policy to a replacement unit.

Your complaint is for a two week period you thought you were getting more than you paid for and are now unhappy because you're getting exactly what you paid for.

The owner sold you the old unit for parts and at the same time persuaded tivo to make an exception.

If tivo reverses the transaction you'd be getting more than you paid for. The seller could have paid to the have the unit repaired and preserved his lifetime service instead he had tivo transfer the service and sold the old unit for parts.


The TiVo, with Lifetime still attached to it, became the property of the new owner.

The Lifetime service cannot be transferred to a new box.

The new owner confirmed with TiVo that the box was still listed as having Lifetime, and fixed it up, then making sure it was registered in his name.

TiVo promptly, once the original owner requests it, violates their own rules and takes the new owner's Lifetime service and gives Lifetime to the previous owners new box...which TiVo says you can't do.

The registered owner thus had HIS Lifetime service TAKEN from his box by a company that didn't own the box, and given to someone who also didn't own the box.

What part of this is so hard to understand? If the Lifetime stays with the box, the Lifetime stays with the box. End of discussion. If the box doesn't work, and the new owner is able to make it work, he's got a working box with Lifetime...

...and the previous owner DOES NOT.

TiVo took something from the box's current owner and gave it to the previous owner.

The previous owner signed up for Lifetime knowing (or having been warned) that the Lifetime STAYS WITH THE BOX. They later SOLD that box...

Thus they sold the Lifetime.

To the new owner.

Who later had it taken off his box without his permission.

By TiVo.

And the previous owner.

Neither of whom owned the box.

The box that LIFETIME was to STAY with, and not be transferred to another unit. By anyone.

HELLO?!?!

[gastrof]

...RETURN the Tivo and make everyone happy. You'll sleep better too.


Return the TiVo he bought, found out it was listed as having Lifetime, fixed up and registered in his name?

A TiVo the original owner apparently sold for PARTS after being warned from the start that Lifetime stays with the box and can't be transferred?

Why should he return the box the original owner gave up on, but then wanted the Lifetime from, very conveniently AFTER he got it working again?

[terryfoster]

Mods Please close this thread!

[davezatz]

Mods Please close this thread!

Why? There's absolutely nothing wrong with discussion and folks are remaining largely civil debating the issue and avoiding personal attacks.

[Turtleboy]

The TiVo, with Lifetime still attached to it, became the property of the new owner.

The Lifetime service cannot be transferred to a new box.

The new owner confirmed with TiVo that the box was still listed as having Lifetime, and fixed it up, then making sure it was registered in his name.

TiVo promptly, once the original owner requests it, violates their own rules and takes the new owner's Lifetime service and gives Lifetime to the previous owners new box...which TiVo says you can't do.

The registered owner thus had HIS Lifetime service TAKEN from his box by a company that didn't own the box, and given to someone who also didn't own the box.

What part of this is so hard to understand? If the Lifetime stays with the box, the Lifetime stays with the box. End of discussion. If the box doesn't work, and the new owner is able to make it work, he's got a working box with Lifetime...

...and the previous owner DOES NOT.

TiVo took something from the box's current owner and gave it to the previous owner.

The previous owner signed up for Lifetime knowing (or having been warned) that the Lifetime STAYS WITH THE BOX. They later SOLD that box...

Thus they sold the Lifetime.

To the new owner.

Who later had it taken off his box without his permission.

By TiVo.

And the previous owner.

Neither of whom owned the box.

The box that LIFETIME was to STAY with, and not be transferred to another unit. By anyone.

HELLO?!?!

Why do you keep attacking TiVo? Earlier you "seriously" talked about getting a lawyer and suing for theft??!!!

Their CSRs made a mistake, which was corrected by TiVo pretty quickly. Case closed. But you seem to have a lot of animosity towards TiVo in this thread.

[jjberger2134]

Why would someone assume that the buyer knew there was lifetime on the unit? Why would someone assume the buyer knew there was lifetime on the unit prior to fixing the broken unit? Let's give this guy some slack. According to the orginal poster, the unit was broken when he bought it to fix it up. Why would people question that without doing some basic research?

Based on a user search on eBay, I found the original posters eBay name (same as here) and looked at his feedback. Around the date he claims he bought the broken TiVo he received and left feedback on a unit which needed a new hard drive. The listing said nothing about any type of service on the unit. The listing did not say the unit would power on or not. It is entirely possible that the Hard Drive would not even allow the unit to power up. If the unit would not power up, how would he confirm lifetime or the TSN on the unit? Finally, based on other feedback on eBay for the original poster it appears that he has frequently bought non working TiVo's to repair. Why question the integrity of the original poster? Yes, he got more that he anticipated, but that's the way the world works!

[ZeoTiVo]

Hay: my daughter lives in in a nice home with her husband that they own; it was the basement of her home where the TiVo is going:



oh so you all get to live nice and happy while the TiVo of shame :rolleyes: is left in the dark cold basement :D


PS nice of TiVo to quickly remedy its error and prove out the TOS we all agreed to when buying a TiVo, even the seller of the TiVo on ebay

[Stormspace]

Why do you keep attacking TiVo? Earlier you "seriously" talked about getting a lawyer and suing for theft??!!!

Their CSRs made a mistake, which was corrected by TiVo pretty quickly. Case closed. But you seem to have a lot of animosity towards TiVo in this thread.

Not everyone has a romantic interest in TiVo. :rolleyes: :)

Nice Pic with who? TiVoshannan?

[lessd]

Why would someone assume that the buyer knew there was lifetime on the unit? Why would someone assume the buyer knew there was lifetime on the unit prior to fixing the broken unit? Let's give this guy some slack. According to the orginal poster, the unit was broken when he bought it to fix it up. Why would people question that without doing some basic research?

Based on a user search on eBay, I found the original posters eBay name (same as here) and looked at his feedback. Around the date he claims he bought the broken TiVo he received and left feedback on a unit which needed a new hard drive. The listing said nothing about any type of service on the unit. The listing did not say the unit would power on or not. It is entirely possible that the Hard Drive would not even allow the unit to power up. If the unit would not power up, how would he confirm lifetime or the TSN on the unit? Finally, based on other feedback on eBay for the original poster it appears that he has frequently bought non working TiVo's to repair. Why question the integrity of the original poster? Yes, he got more that he anticipated, but that's the way the world works!

Thank you as I am the OP and could not have known before I received the TiVo what it had on it beyond what the posting listed. I know I posted before that I never had any communication (outside of the payment for the unit) with the seller before or after the sale NONE so I knew only what was on the posting. (The posting did not say the unit was for parts only I said I bought it to use for parts). I did not take advantage of her lack of knowledge because we don't know what TiVo told her if anything before she sold the TiVo, its possible that a miss-informed CSR at TiVo told her to sell the unit and TiVo would move the lifetime when she got a new TiVo, in that case she did nothing stupid (why the CSR didn't tell her that the in warranty TiVo in question (parts only) could have be fixed for $50, I don't know, if she had talk to one before the sale) TiVo has made it correct for me so I am happy but I don't know what if anything they did for the seller and that is not my business or this community business unless the seller posts here with her side. I don't think anybody should try to contact her as I think it would violate her privacy.

Ho I don't think I paid too much for that TiVo even had I used for parts only as I as another broken TiVo went for 50% more than I paid for the one in question. I tried for that one but the price went higher than I thought it was worth.

[ZeoTiVo]

I don't know what if anything they did for the seller and that is not my business or this community business unless the seller posts here with her side. I don't think anybody should try to contact her as I think it would violate her privacy.


why?

Her privacy is her own but she chose to list on ebay and open a public communication channel. If someone asked her about the listing that is all part of the ebay experience. And since you elected to go public on this forum and get some help with your porblem then you made it the business of the forum.

You can not have it both ways.

[lessd]

why?

Her privacy is her own but she chose to list on ebay and open a public communication channel. If someone asked her about the listing that is all part of the ebay experience. And since you elected to go public on this forum and get some help with your porblem then you made it the business of the forum.

You can not have it both ways.

I did not give her name from E-Bay

[MoneyMINTR]

I've been following up on some of the "I have a problem" threads in this forum. Tivo is a great company, but it seems that if you have a problem, then all you have to do is "cry and moan," and then one of the Tivo employees will make it right. I hope they can turn a profit one day and not go out of business.


I just hope that the ebay seller didn't get the short end of the stick. Who knows, maybe she was promised to switch the lifetime service because it was broken before she sold it. There's always two sides to a story. For all those that are rejoicing in the OP's great deal; would you feel the same way if it was your grandmother that was the eBay seller?

[ZeoTiVo]

I've been following up on some of the "I have a problem" threads in this forum. Tivo is a great company, but it seems that if you have a problem, then all you have to do is "cry and moan," and then one of the Tivo employees will make it right. I hope they can turn a profit one day and not go out of business.


I just hope that the ebay seller didn't get the short end of the stick. Who knows, maybe she was promised to switch the lifetime service because it was broken before she sold it. There's always two sides to a story. For all those that are rejoicing in the OP's great deal; would you feel the same way if it was your grandmother that was the eBay seller?

I would feel the same about the buyer. She sold a TiVo with lifetime on it. The TOS clearly states that lifetime goes with the box. If she elected not to read the TOS and sell without full knowledge then that is her fault. If a CSR told her something that was not correct then that is TiVo inc's. fault and TiVo inc. will need to rectify that without impinging on the buyer who has legal right to the lifetime service. Hey, that is exactly what TiVo did, at least for the half we know about. I would only be upset that she did not ask me first if I was related.

actually very weak to pull out the poor little old lady routine.

[Stormspace]

I've been following up on some of the "I have a problem" threads in this forum. Tivo is a great company, but it seems that if you have a problem, then all you have to do is "cry and moan," and then one of the Tivo employees will make it right. I hope they can turn a profit one day and not go out of business.


I just hope that the ebay seller didn't get the short end of the stick. Who knows, maybe she was promised to switch the lifetime service because it was broken before she sold it. There's always two sides to a story. For all those that are rejoicing in the OP's great deal; would you feel the same way if it was your grandmother that was the eBay seller?

One of the problems with TiVo is the fine print. It's not like a VCR or DVD recorder where what you see is what you get. In general people just aren't accustomed to having to read a contract to use a consumer electronics device. Also a TOS agreement introduces complexity in the purchase as now the prospective buyer has to think about it before making the purchase if they read the box completely. Or actually make the purchase so they can read the contract in its entirety.

Most people will just make the purchase and then discover through trial and error the limits of the TOS and they are limits, so the experience will almost always be a bad one as the user discovers that they cannot do something as a result of the TOS.

I think TiVo is completely aware of this as a barrier to entry into the market and they take extra steps to mollify those that might cause lost sales because they didn't read every word in the click through agreement when they set up the box, or weren't given the option of reading it before making the purchase.

I'm no great fan of click through agreements and I'll give you an example.

+++++
By reading this statement you agree to not hold the poster liable for any comments with which you do not agree, furthermore you cannot bring suit against him for any damages real or imagined.

[davezatz]

I just hope that the ebay seller didn't get the short end of the stick.

I assume TiVo will let her keep Lifetime and that will be that. I can't imagine they'd make the same mistake twice of taking service from a customer. I also assume the CSRs involved were or will be counseled on this issue, both in terms of Lifetime service policies and in terms of disclosing information about customers to other customers.

[ZeoTiVo]

I'm no great fan of click through agreements and I'll give you an example.

+++++
By reading this statement you agree to not hold the poster liable for any comments with which you do not agree, furthermore you cannot bring suit against him for any damages real or imagined.

By replying to this post you agree to give me all your Lifetimed TiVo DVRs

[Stormspace]

By replying to this post you agree to give me all your Lifetimed TiVo DVRs

All your Lifetime are belong to us!

Haha! I'm monthly myself.

[jfh3]

why?

Her privacy is her own but she chose to list on ebay and open a public communication channel. If someone asked her about the listing that is all part of the ebay experience. And since you elected to go public on this forum and get some help with your porblem then you made it the business of the forum.

You can not have it both ways.

He isn't having it both ways. He has posted no private info about the seller; only his experience, which also includes Tivo's description of what happened.

Unless the seller posts here, I don't see how helping the seller is any "business" of the forum.

[jfh3]

One of the problems with TiVo is the fine print. It's not like a VCR or DVD recorder where what you see is what you get. In general people just aren't accustomed to having to read a contract to use a consumer electronics device. Also a TOS agreement introduces complexity in the purchase as now the prospective buyer has to think about it before making the purchase if they read the box completely.

Sigh.

Even though the "lifetime of the box, not lifetime of the buyer" issue was resolved almost six and a half years ago, people still claim ignorance.

And people wonder why Tivo got rid of lifetime.

[ZeoTiVo]

He isn't having it both ways. He has posted no private info about the seller; only his experience, which also includes Tivo's description of what happened.

Unless the seller posts here, I don't see how helping the seller is any "business" of the forum.

He is asking people not to bug her and that is his right to ask. I myself have no desire to ask the seller anything. But it is relatively easy to find the sellers profile on ebay and this posting here in the forum to get some help on his problem opened the door to that possibility. It was a risk Les took in posting about the auction on a public forum. It is a risk he will have to accept.

[NewYorkLaw]

And people wonder why Tivo got rid of lifetime.
What do you mean they got rid of Lifetime! Why didn't anyone tell me?
Pete

[Jabberer]

I just hope that the ebay seller didn't get the short end of the stick. Who knows, maybe she was promised to switch the lifetime service because it was broken before she sold it.

Maybe she was, but probably not. But if so, then the lifetime should have been removed from the unit immediately so that the buyer didn't get jerked around like he did. Once he moved it onto his account and it was listed lifetime, that should be the end of the story. It wasn't, but Tivo fixed the problem quickly and in a professional maner, so it's all good.

For all those that are rejoicing in the OP's great deal; would you feel the same way if it was your grandmother that was the eBay seller?

Yes, without a doubt I would. When you buy lifetime, you agree to certain things about it. If later, you don't like the rules you agreed to, tough. I've personally been on the "down side" of agreements like this (not this one in particular, but similar situations where I agreed to something and later realized it was a bad agreement in the long term) and I simply don't gripe about it - well, except to my wife, but that's what spouses are for, letting you vent ;) . Once you enter into an agreement, so long as there's no fraud, you're stuck with it - or you should be.

[davezatz]

I've personally been on the "down side" of agreements like this (not this one in particular, but similar situations where I agreed to something and later realized it was a bad agreement in the long term) and I simply don't gripe about it - well, except to my wife, but that's what spouses are for, letting you vent ;) .
If one resells their spouse through ebay (because he/she is broken and they haven't invested some time and a few bucks on repair), does one retain the right to gripe to him/her for a Lifetime or does that service stay with the unit? :D

[MickeS]

The entire text in the listing goes like this:
"Tivo Series 2 40 hour is 7 months old and needs repair. Great find for the person who can repair the hard drive. This tivo was used regularly but not abused. After 7 months it just stopped working. I will include the remote and the the original cables that came with the box."

It sold for $35.99. Hell if I had seen that listing I would've paid more than that for it (since it was just a HD replacement). Why would the buyer suspect anything else than that it was a monthly subbed unit? It was just a happy accident that it had Lifetime on it... and the seller screwed up, but the buyer shouldn't be held accountable for that.

C'est la vie.

[lessd]

The entire text in the listing goes like this:
"Tivo Series 2 40 hour is 7 months old and needs repair. Great find for the person who can repair the hard drive. This tivo was used regularly but not abused. After 7 months it just stopped working. I will include the remote and the the original cables that came with the box."

It sold for $35.99. Hell if I had seen that listing I would've paid more than that for it (since it was just a HD replacement). Why would the buyer suspect anything else than that it was a monthly subbed unit? It was just a happy accident that it had Lifetime on it... and the seller screwed up, but the buyer shouldn't be held accountable for that.

C'est la vie.

You can't keep anything from this group, you guys should start solving crimes what great detective work finding the sellers original post, I think I going to have to change my E-Bay name.

Just kidding...have at it guys..I haven't done this much writing since collage.

[Joeg180]

Les,
Congrats on getting this resolved.

Joe

[Einselen]

It sold for $35.99. Hell if I had seen that listing I would've paid more than that for it (since it was just a HD replacement).

I have to ask you and also les why? Why would you pay $35.99 for a broken S2 when you can buy a new one FAR, yes having to deal with rebates, but still I don't mind putting in the paperwork at waiting. In this case it worked out in favor of les, but he didn't know this when buying the TiVo, so again I ask why?

[MickeS]

I have to ask you and also les why? Why would you pay $35.99 for a broken S2 when you can buy a new one FAR, yes having to deal with rebates

You got the answer right there, plus I'd be replacing the HD for a much larger one right away anyway. Why bother buying a new one and the hassle with mail-in rebates then?

[Einselen]

You got the answer right there, plus I'd be replacing the HD for a much larger one right away anyway. Why bother buying a new one and the hassle with mail-in rebates then?

Call me cheap then. I still like FAR.

Edit: However I do understand some the rebate factor. I am looking at two harddrives now, one is 160GB for $49.99 A/R and the other is 250GB for $79.99 OTD. I am unsure which to buy. I think 160 GB should be enough storage upgrade (especially since the TiVo is fro my parents and not me, well not me at least yet, hehe) and is better price per GB but the 250 is so much easier that I know no need to deal with rebates (yes the 160 has 2 rebates, which also annoys me some). Also a small factor is I would expext to get reimbursed, why should I pay for their upgrade?

[ChuckyBox]

Call me cheap then. I still like FAR.
Rebate is only available if you sub the machine. If you want it for parts, or to trade, you need to buy it outright.

[Einselen]

Rebate is only available if you sub the machine. If you want it for parts, or to trade, you need to buy it outright.

I swear I am getting dumber as I go through college. Good pt. I will go shut up and pack now :)

[Test]

35.99 OH MAN....nice score dude...

[lessd]

Rebate is only available if you sub the machine. If you want it for parts, or to trade, you need to buy it outright.

Thank you I did want it for only parts when I purchased it and thought I said it many times.

Except for TiVo (where you can get 40h unit for $155 with 1 year sub) where can you buy a 40h new TiVo today at a retail outlet at much less then $35 even with the rebate. I see them for $179.95 which after rebate is still $29.95 if there is no sales tax. With a 6% sales tax added the price goes to about $40.

[Einselen]

Thank you I did want it for only parts when I purchased it and thought I said it many times.

Except for TiVo (where you can get 40h unit for $155 with 1 year sub) where can you buy a 40h new TiVo today at a retail outlet at much less then $35 even with the rebate. I see them for $179.95 which after rebate is still $29.95 if there is no sales tax. With a 6% sales tax added the price goes to about $40.

I forgot the terms of the rebate require activation and 1 yr service.

CompUSA has it FAR, so with sales tax of 6.25% you pay $10 for the unit. They used to have in store FAR, now it seems they did Deliveery only FAR.

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=313608&pfp=BROWSE

[lessd]

I forgot the terms of the rebate require activation and 1 yr service.

CompUSA has it FAR, so with sales tax of 6.25% you pay $10 for the unit. They used to have in store FAR, now it seems they did Deliveery only FAR.

http://www.compusa.com/products/product_info.asp?product_code=313608&pfp=BROWSE

+ $10 shipping =$20 good find. With a one year Sub at $6.95 would give me a cost of $83 + $20 =$100. If I give my son the TiVo reward worth about $37 (he introduced me to TiVo) I would have a total (family) cost of $63 for a new unit for parts Hmmmmm.

[Jabberer]

If one resells their spouse through ebay (because he/she is broken and they haven't invested some time and a few bucks on repair), does one retain the right to gripe to him/her for a Lifetime or does that service stay with the unit? :D

I am sooooo glad my wife doesn't read this forum. :)