Will Windows Vista replace TiVo?

[mattheinz]

Is anyone else using the Windows Media Center features in Windows Vista? Any chance it will be a TiVo-killer?

http://mattonmarketing.blogspot.com/2007/03/will-windows-vista-replace-tivo.html

[wolflord11]

The Media Center feature that Vista has has been around for awhile. XP also has a Media Center Edition.

Maybe further on down the Road, it may be competition for Tivo.

[rainwater]

I use Vista to record HD OTA programs. However, its not convenient since the PC isn't hooked up to my entertainment center. If I had Vista media center PC in a media center case, then it might be a tivo replacement. But the cost of building a machine like that is way more than the cost of 3 years of service + a tivo box. And media center machines like that are hard to fine prebuilt to my liking. The only way to really do it is to build it yourself, and that is just too time consuming for the average consumer.

I really don't see how Vista media center can be a replacement for a TiVo when the hardware requirements are so high (because you have to install Vista to get the functionality) that it will never be cost effective compared to a TiVo.

[aadam101]

Not many people want to watch TV on their PC. Once some decent, affordable devices hit the market to take care of this MCE might become more popular. I know plenty of people who have it with XP and don't even use it because they don't have the time and energy to set it up to go to their TV.

[ccooperev]

hahahahahahhaha! ROFL....

[BoyScout]

Not many people want to watch TV on their PC. Once some decent, affordable devices hit the market to take care of this MCE might become more popular. I know plenty of people who have it with XP and don't even use it because they don't have the time and energy to set it up to go to their TV.
Doesn't the XBox stream video from a media center PC?

[stahta01]

Is anyone else using the Windows Media Center features in Windows Vista? Any chance it will be a TiVo-killer?

http://mattonmarketing.blogspot.com/2007/03/will-windows-vista-replace-tivo.html

Windows Media Center is in the same price range as the TiVo Series 3, but has a different set of features and problems.

It is no threat in my opinion to the Series 2 and when the low price TiVo Series 3 arrives it should not threaten it.

But, the people who do NOT wish to pay a monthly fee it is a very appealing choice. The other choices like MythTV etc. are direct completion against both Windows Media Center and TiVos for that reason.

Tim S

[bootedbear]

snort!

[CrispyCritter]

Windows Media Center is in the same price range as the TiVo Series 3, but has a different set of features and problems.Windows Media Center that can take a cablecard (i.e, compete with the S3) is going to be much more expensive than the S3 for quite a while. I'd be surprised to see one for much under $2000 within the next year.

[jmoak]

Windows Media Center is in the same price range as the TiVo Series 3, ....Holy Cow!!!!!!!:eek:

Dual hd tuner windows media center pc for $800??!?!!??

Dang, Tim!!! Link, PLEASE!!!!

[hornblowercat]

I've had a Windows Media Center PC for about a year now.

I can't figure out what to do with it. :o I was told that with XP it was pretty worthless and when Vista rolled out it would work well.

I still don't see what I'm suppose to do with it. And I'm not getting Vista.

Edited to add: My wife just asked if anything interesting was going on in the boards. I told her the name of this thread and she burst into laughter.

She's a director of an IT department of a huge company.

[SullyND]

Holy Cow!!!!!!!:eek:

Dual hd tuner windows media center pc for $800??!?!!??

Dang, Tim!!! Link, PLEASE!!!!

People are still buying the S3 for $800!

:eek:

$600-$650 seems a better price to compare to. :eek:

Dual CABLECARD hd tuner windows media center pc for $650??!?!!?? I want a link for that!

[LunaC]

I use Vista to record HD OTA programs. However, its not convenient since the PC isn't hooked up to my entertainment center. If I had Vista media center PC in a media center case, then it might be a tivo replacement. But the cost of building a machine like that is way more than the cost of 3 years of service + a tivo box. And media center machines like that are hard to fine prebuilt to my liking. The only way to really do it is to build it yourself, and that is just too time consuming for the average consumer.

I really don't see how Vista media center can be a replacement for a TiVo when the hardware requirements are so high (because you have to install Vista to get the functionality) that it will never be cost effective compared to a TiVo.


--OR---
Buy a MAC

[reh523]

People are still buying the S3 for $800!

:eek:

$600-$650 seems a better price to compare to. :eek:

Dual CABLECARD hd tuner windows media center pc for $650??!?!!?? I want a link for that!

Okay you are using 650 as a cost basis. But you do not mention the monthly fee's? Shouldn't you take the monthly fee's over a peroid of 3 years to base your comparison? You may have done a free lifetime transfer but someone new would not get that. So every one forgets about the 14.95 x 36 month equal to $ 538

I will hand it to media center, it works well. And with the Xbox 360 I can stream Live (HD) tv to my living room and if I had another Xbox 360 in my bedroom to there as well. And you do not need the fancy 399 xbox 360 either.

30 second skip? How about a utility that automaicly skips all comercials? It works very well and it is free read about here (http://bluwiki.com/go/DVRMSToolbox_User_Guide) how about logging in to web browser to view the guide, record shows, delete shows and more. That is free also it is called Web guide 4 read about that here (http://asciiexpress.com/webguide/) .

MCE is not tivo yet but it is getting very close, and cable cards will be here very soon. Here is a Dell I use 2 HD OTA tuners and one for Direct TV. So I can record up to three shows at once. And play them through a simple GUI on my Xbox 360. Wife has no problem with it (loves the commercial skip). I love the no monthly charge.

People think they need a top of the line PC and a $300 video card. Not true. OTA HD streams come in digital package (no encoding needed). Take the 300 video card and invest it in a xbox360. Put the PC in a closet somewhere out of site and have fun. Dell will have a version out soon..... XPS410 (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2C1895%2C2102511%2C00.asp)

[aadam101]

Doesn't the XBox stream video from a media center PC?

That's not really a great option for people who don't play video games.

[rainwater]

Okay you are using 650 as a cost basis. But you do not mention the monthly fee's? Shouldn't you take the monthly fee's over a peroid of 3 years to base your comparison? You may have done a free lifetime transfer but someone new would not get that. So every one forgets about the 14.95 x 36 month equal to $ 538


Sure, you can factor in monthly fee over 3 years. And it will come out to be less than the cost of a xbox 360, so TiVo still wins. Btw, your 3 year cost is off. Its $299 for 3 year service on a new box.

[CrispyCritter]

MCE is not tivo yet but it is getting very close, and cable cards will be here very soon. Here is a Dell I use 2 HD OTA tuners and one for Direct TV. So I can record up to three shows at once. And play them through a simple GUI on my Xbox 360. Wife has no problem with it (loves the commercial skip). I love the no monthly charge.But to actually use the cablecards is going to be quite expensive for a while, and require specialized machines/hardware.

The solution you suggest is going to be very nice and enough for some people, but you can't compare it to the S3 in price unless it actually offers S3 capabilities. But once it does that, your solution is going to be far more expensive.

[GoHokies!]

I will hand it to media center, it works well. And with the Xbox 360 I can stream Live (HD) tv to my living room and if I had another Xbox 360 in my bedroom to there as well. And you do not need the fancy 399 xbox 360 either.

30 second skip? How about a utility that automaicly skips all comercials?

How are you going to stream to an Xbox 360 without the 360? :confused:

Tivo has a 30 second skip, and I don't really care to have the commercials automatically skipped - sometimes there are things worth watching in there...

As mentioned, your monthly cost is still off, and still cheaper than the required Xbox, not to mention any computer that can take cablecards is going to be WAY more expensive than an S3.

Vista may be "getting there" and in years it may be as good as a Tivo for the same price. But Tivo isn't standing still either, so i doubt that it'll catch up.

[ashu]

--OR---
Buy a MAC

Each of my network cards came with a free MAC.

[ZeoTiVo]

My Dad and My Mom-in-Law were saying just the other day how they wanted a PC in the living room controlling all their recordings and I told them that Windows was the way to go for the most error free ease of use.

when we were done laughing we hit the TiVo guy twice and then TV power and looked in now playing for a show to watch.

[bidger]

I use my MCE a lot more than my standalone TiVo. Matter of fact, I'm entering my post while watching streaming video. I haven't kept up with the HME/HMO/etc. apps, but the last I knew you couldn't do that with a TiVo.

I'm pretty fond of TV Tonic (http://www.tvtonic.com/) and channels like the Rawdio feed, which has been featuring WS, though not HD, music videos. I sub to the Gamespot channel, which does have HD gaming trailers, and a Tech channel where I can see DLTV, Cranky Geeks, Diggnation, commandN eps.

Does it replace TiVo? That'll vary by individuals. If you're not tech-shy, but are averse to another monthly sub, you'd probably give it or another DIY solution a spin. If that's not you, then you'll shell out for TiVo or a DVR from your provider.

[MickeS]

I use my MCE a lot more than my standalone TiVo. Matter of fact, I'm entering my post while watching streaming video. I haven't kept up with the HME/HMO/etc. apps, but the last I knew you couldn't do that with a TiVo.

I'm pretty fond of TV Tonic (http://www.tvtonic.com/) and channels like the Rawdio feed, which has been featuring WS, though not HD, music videos. I sub to the Gamespot channel, which does have HD gaming trailers, and a Tech channel where I can see DLTV, Cranky Geeks, Diggnation, commandN eps.

Does it replace TiVo? That'll vary by individuals. If you're not tech-shy, but are averse to another monthly sub, you'd probably give it or another DIY solution a spin. If that's not you, then you'll shell out for TiVo or a DVR from your provider.
Is that with dual CableCARD slots?

That Dell mentioned above is $1K, without CableCARD capability.

[Sethb]

I fear a Vista media center box may be in my future. I have a Series 2 140 hour unit in my bedroom, and a Motorola 6412 HD DVR downstairs on my HDTV setup. I'd love to get a Series 3 box, but the high price of purchase, plus monthly fee, plus CableCARD rental charges from my cable co. make it insanely expensive compared to my 6412. The 6412 software rather sucks compared to my TiVo (I've owned many units since 2000), but I can't bring myself to drop the money on the Series 3 yet, maybe the new version will tempt me more.

I already have an Xbox 360, so having a MCE PC does hold some appeal for me, as I can do multi-room viewing, oh wait, there's a feature the Series 3 doesn't have. :)

Monthly fee + high acquisition costs is a deal killer for me on the TiVos, I've always bought lifetime for the 6(!) TiVos I've owned over the years, but the elimination of that option will probably force me to move away from TiVo. I really hope that one of the two cable companies in my area will license the TiVo software for their 6412 boxes, but I doubt I'm that lucky.

The Vista MCE boxes are no threat to TiVo today, but they may very well be in 12 months.

[bidger]

Is that with dual CableCARD slots?

That Dell mentioned above is $1K, without CableCARD capability.

No, sorry if I confused you. The reason I said MCE is that it's the 2005 version, not the MCE include in the Vista Home Premium and Ultimate editions.

[ZeoTiVo]

, but are averse to another monthly sub, you'd probably give it or another DIY solution a spin. If that's not you, then you'll shell out for TiVo or a DVR from your provider.

so you give an expensive PC type solution a "spin" but isntead "shell out" for a TiVo. Sorry but both will cost money and for now we will say it is a wash if you are talking HD though I still would like to see that link to a 1,000$ or less cable HD ready PC.

HTPCs are very versatile and for the tech minded can offer a lot of features and capabiliites if you research and find the right package or all the add ons out there. But when I keep seeing posts that show the bias of claiming a Vista PC that is cable HD ready is less expensive than an S3 it just kills any real debate in my mind.

Bottom line is that any 3rd party cable HD ready recorder setup out there is going to cost some upfront bucks today. compare the options based on what suits your lifestyle. As for me I am living in the inexpensive SD land of DT S2 TiVo DVRs that let me see any show on any TV in my house and was waiting for the S3 price drop but will now look forward to what TiVo comes out with on a low cost HD capable TiVo DVR.

[jmoak]

The Vista MCE boxes are no threat to TiVo today, but they may very well be in 12 months.When I can get a dependable dual cablecard HD MCE setup for under $800, I'm there!

:)

[aadam101]

Anyone care to pull up all the "Tivo Killer" threads?? There have been MANY over the past 8 years!

[aadam101]

Anyone care to pull up all the "Tivo Killer" threads?? There have been MANY over the past 8 years!

[JJ]

Dropped five TiVo boxes
in favour of MCE2005 boxes. This is a so far, so good process.
My wife prefers the Media Center interface and that problems like the Series1 DST debacle can be addressed locally and immediately rather than waiting for TiVo to (maybe, someday) provide a solution.
Remaining TiVo boxes are currently 'on the bubble' and if DirecTV or Comcast has an upcoming solution providing digital SD/HD FoodTV, SciFi, and a few others for PC they will be getting my business as the TiVos sail off into the auction site sunset...

[ashu]

JJ, in your signature, an a should be an an.

[hornblowercat]

Dropped five TiVo boxes
in favour of MCE2005 boxes. This is a so far, so good process.
My wife prefers the Media Center interface and that problems like the Series1 DST debacle can be addressed locally and immediately rather than waiting for TiVo to (maybe, someday) provide a solution.
Remaining TiVo boxes are currently 'on the bubble' and if DirecTV or Comcast has an upcoming solution providing digital SD/HD FoodTV, SciFi, and a few others for PC they will be getting my business as the TiVos sail off into the auction site sunset...


I don't know why anybody would put that much trust into a pc with microsoft software, but here's to you.

I've had a Media Center PC for over a year and half the time Media Center when I do use it crashes on me.

I'll take my S3 anyday.

[epshih]

I don't know why anybody would put that much trust into a pc with microsoft software, but here's to you.

I've had a Media Center PC for over a year and half the time Media Center when I do use it crashes on me.

I'll take my S3 anyday.


I have personally built 4 dual-tuner MCE 2005 boxes, all from relatively low-end hardware.... we are talking Semperon processors and low-end P4 CPUs. I've used free-after-rebate video cards and "crappy" low-end mobo's like ECS and Biostar. I wasn't afraid to source free-after-rebate power supplies (ie, cheap crap) and off-brand, whatever's-on-sale-cheap-ass RAM to build my systems. While I won't say my MCE boxes have NEVER had a hiccup, I can say with all honesty that system up-times routinely run indefinitely until something like a power outage or a Microsoft hotfix (that I chose to manually download) forces a system reboot.

If you personally are having stability issues with your MCE machine, the issues you are having are not inherent to the MCE 2005 OS. You are experiencing 3rd software stability issues, or hardware conflict issues, or maybe both. There is nothing inherently wrong with MCE... I don't know about Vista... I haven't installed my two copies of Vista yet but everything I hear says Vista's MCE is even better from a functional standpoint; don't know about stablility.

IMO, the KEY to running a stable MCE installation is to treat the box as an appliance, just like some of us treat our Tivos. If you going to install random software, hacks, patches, utilities, servers, scripts, anti-virus/spyware/ad-ware crap on the machine, you are bound to compromise the stability of your box. If you treat your MCE installation as if it were an appliance (like you would a toaster/vcr/Tivo), it's been my experience it will run trouble free assuming your hardware is stable. On the other hand, if you treat your MCE box like a normal PC and use it to surf the web, read email, download porn, run Kaza, get on IRC/bittorrent/DC++/UseNet, surf with Internet Explorer, etc... well then it will act just like any other Windows based PC... unpredictable.

My MCE boxes do one thing and one thing only. They are PVRs! They are connected to my TV and I interact with them SOLELY via a remote control. I practically never touch the keyboard and rarely ever see the Windows desktop. They are PVRs and I treat them as such. They have Windows Updates set to manual. They don't have 3rd party firewalls and filters installed. They don't have a bazillion different codec packs installed (just MPeg-2 and Divx). They aren't used to transcode, rip or burn video, and their only interaction with the Internet is the free nightly download for guide data and the occasional Windows Update that I deem necessary.

Treat your MCE box kindly and it will treat you the same. :)

[epshih]

The #1 reason I don't see Vista cable card machines being S3 killers is the fact that CableLabs has somehow gotten Microsoft and the OEM manufacturers to agree to its certification terms. Therefore, no one will be able to build their own cable card2.0 compatible Vista PC. All cc 2.0 capable Vista boxes must be "certified" by CableLabs and these guys are never going to certify affordable machines, meaning sub $700 boxes. On the other hand, I'm sure there will be a slew of $3000 Vista cable card 2.0 boxes to choose from. :(

[ZeoTiVo]

I have personally built 4 dual-tuner MCE 2005 boxes, all from relatively low-end hardware.... we are talking Semperon processors and low-end P4 CPUs. I've used free-after-rebate video cards and "crappy" low-end mobo's like ECS and Biostar. I wasn't afraid to source free-after-rebate power supplies (ie, cheap crap) and off-brand, whatever's-on-sale-cheap-ass RAM to build my systems. While I won't say my MCE boxes have NEVER had a hiccup, I can say with all honesty that system up-times routinely run indefinitely until something like a power outage or a Microsoft hotfix (that I chose to manually download) forces a system reboot.

If you personally are having stability issues with your MCE machine, the issues you are having are not inherent to the MCE 2005 OS. You are experiencing 3rd software stability issues, or hardware conflict issues, or maybe both. There is nothing inherently wrong with MCE... I don't know about Vista...
good advice on keeping the system up. The one problem though is your systems do not sound like they support HD from cable or perhpas even OTA HD. Edit to Add - though I see you posted that same caveat while I was typing :)

with only SD in the mix then I have my small network of S2 TiVos for cheap and have no hiccups as they are DVR appliances in the truest sense of the word and my wife does not object to them being placed in the same cabinet with the TVs.

[epshih]

good advice on keeping the system up. The one problem though is your systems do not sound like they support HD from cable or perhpas even OTA HD.

You are correct. Unfortunately, I haven't yet joined the HDTV revolution :( All of my systems are currently SD, but they can and HAVE supported OTA HD via an ATI HDTV Wonder card. MCE 2005 is capable of supporting 4 tuners (2xNTSC, 2xATSC). The issues with the various OTA HDTV add-in cards for MCE 2005 are certainly numerous and well documented, so I won't defend them. But if properly installed and given a strong OTA signal, I've heard results can be drop-dead gorgeous.

At one point, I did install the ATI HDTV card in one of my boxes, but for some uncanny reason my OTA HDTV signal SUCKS BEYOND ALL REASON EVEN THOUGH I ESSENTIALLY LIVE IN DOWNTOWN CHICAGO! :mad: Booo! Shame on our local broadcasters.

For this reason, and also because I have yet to purchase my 46" LCD HDTV (waiting until 120Hz screens become standard & affordable), I returned the HD card.

[ashu]

Good contribution and points epshih!


As for your bad OTA signal, it may be because of large metal-frame buildings and the signal bouncing around/off them (the term eludes me, but it is well documented on antenna discussion threads/websites such as avsforum.com). Multi-path, perhaps?

And more power to you for having the patience to wait for the Holy Grail - 120Hz LCDs. I found I couldn't wait any longer - this is the 1-year anniversary week of me finally going HD :) But I loves me my 42" 1080P/60Hz LCD :)

[Forcelite]

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/mce5000.asp?v=d


http://www.eaglebit.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EB-620-00081&Click=14



Both media center edition PC's that are pretty capable.

Also around $800 (Some configs less)

Also something to remember is that when SDV hits you can upgrade your MCE box, still not probable for Tivo without buying another $800 box.


Force

[JJ]

You are correct. Unfortunately, I haven't yet joined the HDTV revolution :( All of my systems are currently SD, but they can and HAVE supported OTA HD via an ATI HDTV Wonder card. MCE 2005 is capable of supporting 4 tuners (2xNTSC, 2xATSC). The issues with the various OTA HDTV add-in cards for MCE 2005 are certainly numerous and well documented, so I won't defend them. But if properly installed and given a strong OTA signal, I've heard results can be drop-dead gorgeous.

At one point, I did install the ATI HDTV card in one of my boxes, but for some uncanny reason my OTA HDTV signal SUCKS BEYOND ALL REASON EVEN THOUGH I ESSENTIALLY LIVE IN DOWNTOWN CHICAGO! :mad: Booo! Shame on our local broadcasters.

For this reason, and also because I have yet to purchase my 46" LCD HDTV (waiting until 120Hz screens become standard & affordable), I returned the HD card.

Mine all are OTA-HD
since I have no multipath issues the Avermedia A180 cards are quite capable. If I needed cable I would be looking at the DVICO Fusion cards or the VBOX cards if I had OTA multipath issues. My requirements are simple and once debugged these systems have needed only about ten minutes attention since last summer. A dead power supply has been the only problem with the load of cheap hardware being used for my boxes. Apparently ,I shop for hardware in the same places epshih does. MCE handles dual HD tuners every bit as well as my HR10-250, in some cases it is more spouse friendly when deciding how to handle programming conflicts.

Not asking a MCE box to be doing web surfing, video encoding, hardcore gaming or stability checking every single new driver released will truly help preserve your sanity.

The only box I ever had troubles with was a celeron 2.53Mhz that was far below specifications and it had some stutter issues with 1080i content like football. A CPU upgrade easily fixed that, again on the cheap...

[MickeS]

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/mce5000.asp?v=d


http://www.eaglebit.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EB-620-00081&Click=14



Both media center edition PC's that are pretty capable.

Also around $800 (Some configs less)

And neither have even single CableCARD slots. And AFAIK you will never be able to build a CableCARD MCE yourself.

[bschuler2007]

From what I've seen.. nothing is really completely known about Cablecard 2.0. Everything is just speculation at this point.. kinda like saying for a flying car, ya need a flying car license.. do ya? We just don't know. I kinda believe the KIT rumours.. where ya can just buy matching hardware. I still remember the original "can't buy MCE for homebrew" issue way back.. then ya could order it from Newegg, etc.. but they had to ship it with some free old hardware in the box to stay legal. Ya just have to remember, where there is a demand.. there is a way.

Anyway.. YEAH.. the computer will kill TIVO one day (I think it is wounding it now).. I don't think it will be MCE though. Going from a meedio based HTPC to TIVO.. I find the constantly changing injected ad selection in menus more than annoying and embarrassing. And the lack of customization is frustrating. I still use my HTPC for everything except tv. Overall though, I think a PC Tivo replacement will always require a user with some skillsets.. so there will always be a market for an easy setup system. TIVO can serve this market well, but that will be a smaller market.

[ZeoTiVo]

Overall though, I think a PC Tivo replacement will always require a user with some skillsets.. so there will always be a market for an easy setup system. TIVO can serve this market well, but that will be a smaller market.
because so many people out there have the skillset to maintain a do it yourself HTPC ?? becasue so many people want all the customized features of a HTPC? I do not see how the smaller market is the simple plug it in, set and forget appliance.

[nhaigh]

http://www.cyberpowerpc.com/system/mce5000.asp?v=d


http://www.eaglebit.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=EB-620-00081&Click=14



Both media center edition PC's that are pretty capable.

Also around $800 (Some configs less)

Also something to remember is that when SDV hits you can upgrade your MCE box, still not probable for Tivo without buying another $800 box.


Force


Sorry for the dumb question but I've never considered a MCE because its based on a PC and I have enough trouble with my laptop doing what it was designed for.

That said, is MCE meant to be something I can put in my TV cabinet like my TiVo. If it is why do they ship a keyboard and mouse?

[tbeckner]

Windows Media Center is in the same price range as the TiVo Series 3, but has a different set of features and problems.Not a chance, Windows Vista Ultimate retail version alone has an MSRP of $399. Follow that up with the computer hardware and then add the HD tuners, a functional Windows Vista based WMC machine would cost at the very least almost 3 to 4 times more than what a Series 3 TiVo now costs. :)

[stahta01]

Not a chance, Windows Vista Ultimate retail version alone has an MSRP of $399. Follow that up with the computer hardware and then add the HD tuners, a functional Windows Vista based WMC machine would cost at the very least almost 3 to 4 times more than what a Series 3 TiVo now costs. :)

To my mind the price range is over $1000.00 for both.
Note, this is figuring value of monthly fee in the cost of a TiVo. Note, to be fair a 4 to 5 years of fees should be added (The length that Windows Vista MCE is supported should be used, I have no idea how long standard support will last.)

Note, I have NOT done the math, but I agree that Windows Vista MCE & PC Hardware costs more than Series 3. I just consider both to be in the High Price Range.

Edit: http://support.microsoft.com/gp/lifecycle Could NOT find Vista MCE

Tim S

[DaveLessnau]

For an idea of what it takes to build your own such system, take a look at the first post (by renethx) in this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=710828&page=1&pp=30

There's an amazing amount of information there. What it boils down to is that it looks a whole lot more expensive to build an HD HTPC than it does to buy a TiVo S3. I'll have to go through that post and pick out a configuration to price before I can say for sure.

[rlc1]

I fear a Vista media center box may be in my future. I have a Series 2 140 hour unit in my bedroom, and a Motorola 6412 HD DVR downstairs on my HDTV setup. I'd love to get a Series 3 box, but the high price of purchase, plus monthly fee, plus CableCARD rental charges from my cable co. make it insanely expensive compared to my 6412. The 6412 software rather sucks compared to my TiVo (I've owned many units since 2000), but I can't bring myself to drop the money on the Series 3 yet, maybe the new version will tempt me more.

I already have an Xbox 360, so having a MCE PC does hold some appeal for me, as I can do multi-room viewing, oh wait, there's a feature the Series 3 doesn't have. :)

Monthly fee + high acquisition costs is a deal killer for me on the TiVos, I've always bought lifetime for the 6(!) TiVos I've owned over the years, but the elimination of that option will probably force me to move away from TiVo. I really hope that one of the two cable companies in my area will license the TiVo software for their 6412 boxes, but I doubt I'm that lucky.

The Vista MCE boxes are no threat to TiVo today, but they may very well be in 12 months.

I feel the exact same way regarding the high acquisition cost + monthly fees (still confused on what I would have to pay cable company for 2 cable cards). I have 2 Tivos, and on my big-screen TV I have the Comcast 6412 DVR too. I hate it but it records in HD and so I put up with it. But I can't see myself getting a Windows Vista Media Center PC. When I was shopping for a new PC a few years back I got an XP machine with Media Center, thinking I would buy the device to hook it up to my big-screen HDTV and use it as either an alternative (or addition to) my Tivos. There were just so many issues, though, I just gave it up. It seemed to me that I would have to get a PC that was dedicated to acting as a DVR, too many issues with other people in the house using the PC while I was trying to use the Media Center part of it.