Interesting Article from NYT about DVR and ratings

[Steveknj]

The networks are beginning to understand and embrace DVR usage:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/bu...er=rss&emc=rss

[SorenTodd]

Yes, very interesting.

QUOTE:
Mr. Beckman suggested a simpler reason why viewers do not zip through the commercials: “Sometimes you just forget".

Oh please, give me a break! When I watch TV, I have my remotes (note the plural) right by my side. In all the years I have owned VCR's, DVD recorders, DVR's, etc; I have NEVER forgotten to FF. In fact, there have been a few times when watching "live" TV that I try to FF (and I realize, that "duh"", it's live TV).

Another advantage of recorded TV that doesn't get talked about much, is the ability to rewind a visually striking scene. Like when something gets blown up on CSI-Miami; that's usually worth a 2nd look.

[Hersheytx]

I have forgotten to FF. But most of the time its because I am relaxed and it jumps right into a commercial that I do not hate. Might be a movie trailer or sexy woman showing off something.
Most of the time I would say I FF and then stop and rewind to see a commercial. Now some networks like Sci-Fi have terrible crap like Ghost hunter ads. I can FF them without even blinking.
But for others I think commercials are not evil, just sometimes you do not have time to spare. To many things and sleep is very important. Getting rid of an extra 15 minutes of a show could mean a hot shower and a load of laundry before bed.

[Bierboy]

Originally Posted by SorenTodd

...I have my remotes (note the plural)...

You need a Harmony...

[Rob Helmerichs]

Originally Posted by SorenTodd

QUOTE:
Mr. Beckman suggested a simpler reason why viewers do not zip through the commercials: “Sometimes you just forget".

Oh, come on! That's ridiculous! Like somebody's going to get so wrapped up in a show that when it's interrupted they won't even notice! What kind of idiots does he think we are?!? Nobody could POSSIBLY be that oblivious! What an insult! BiH, Fox! I just can't BELIEVE...

What's that?

Originally Posted by Hersheytx

I have forgotten to FF.

[lambertman]

I don't think commercials are evil or anything myself, but when I make it a point to record 32 1/2 hours of episodic TV a week*, if I can hack 20% off that time, I'm'a gonna.

* - Assuming they all are in new episodes, which fortunately doesn't happen often if at all

[orangeboy]

Something to note: the article talks about DVRs in general, and not just Tivos. I think that may have an impact on why people don't FF through commercials. Using an SA DVR (running Mystro software) at my sister's house is ABSOLUTELY PAINFUL, and I miss my Tivo dearly when I'm housesitting. I watch commercials while there (if I watch TV at all) because trying to use FF/RR to navigate to the end of a set of commercials usually results in missing a portion of the show I'm trying to enjoy. I skip (most) commercials when I'm home, because the Tivo makes it easy.

[Alfer]

I know for a fact my elderly parents are not FF hounds if they watch a recorded show...they literally will sit and watch the show from beginning to end TOTALLY oblivious to the fact that they can FF through the commercial.

I venture to guess that they aren't alone in that habit.

[vman41]

I'll actually watch an interesting/entertaining commercial once or twice, but will skip over it the next 300 times.

[tiassa]

Originally Posted by vman41

I'll actually watch an interesting/entertaining commercial once or twice, but will skip over it the next 300 times.

I'm with vman -- I've even "backed up" to watch an interesting commercial on occasion.

[jilter]

guess I posted in the wrong forum:

[lew]

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

Oh, come on! That's ridiculous! Like somebody's going to get so wrapped up in a show that when it's interrupted they won't even notice! What kind of idiots does he think we are?!? Nobody could POSSIBLY be that oblivious! What an insult! BiH, Fox! I just can't BELIEVE...

What's that?

Some people are given a cable company provided DVR as part of a promotion. It might even be included with a standard HD STB. A surprising number of customers don't even know they have a DVR. I forgot the statistics but it's a lot higher then I would have thought. I'm not going to take the time to search but the number I remember is almost 1/3.

Other customers may not even know they can hit FF while a program is playing. These are not TCF members who researched DVRs and purchased a tivo.

Don't think of TCF members. Think of people like your parents or grandparents who are given an upgraded STB. Cable companies don't give out manuals or instructions.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I suppose it's vaguely conceivable that I was joking...

[terpfan1980]

Wasn't there a thread about this very same news article in Happy Hour?

[Candipinki]

Yep parents. After my parents got a cable provided DVR, it took them a while to stop watching stuff live. Then once they got used to TV being on their schedule instead of the other way around, they would really forget to fast forward. When I would be visiting them and watching a recorded show, eventually they would just give me the remote because I kept bugging them to fast forward through the comercials.

[allan]

There are 3 types of commercials.

1. Commercials that I WANT to watch. I can't think of any right now, and they're rare, but they do exist. Usually they involve lightly dressed women.

2. Commercials I can stand. The majority. Usually I FF past them, but sometimes I'm doing other stuff while watching, or maybe even *gasp* watching live, and I'll watch or at least hear them with the corner of my ear.

3. Commercials I can't stand. If one of those come on, I'll grab the remote so quickly I'll cause a sonic boom, and FF past it. If I'm watching live, I'll switch to the NPL, jump to the front of the buffer, or throw the TV out the window (slight exaggeration, but the thought HAS occurred to me).

[jsmeeker]

Originally Posted by lew

Some people are given a cable company provided DVR as part of a promotion. It might even be included with a standard HD STB. A surprising number of customers don't even know they have a DVR. I forgot the statistics but it's a lot higher then I would have thought. I'm not going to take the time to search but the number I remember is almost 1/3.

Other customers may not even know they can hit FF while a program is playing. These are not TCF members who researched DVRs and purchased a tivo.

Don't think of TCF members. Think of people like your parents or grandparents who are given an upgraded STB. Cable companies don't give out manuals or instructions.

I've been using a TiVo for over 8 years. And sometimes I forget to start to fast forward through a commerical.

I might be watching TV while doing something else (like eating, posting here, etc.) and just forget to findthe remote and zip through something.

[TAsunder]

Originally Posted by jsmeeker

I've been using a TiVo for over 8 years. And sometimes I forget to start to fast forward through a commerical.

I might be watching TV while doing something else (like eating, posting here, etc.) and just forget to findthe remote and zip through something.

That happens to me as well. I also fall asleep when watching TV once in a great while. In that scenario, the commercials become deeply rooted in my subconscious and I am every advertiser's fantasy viewer. I am guessing that I absent-mindedly sing jingles I don't actually remember ever hearing.

[sgsmith]

Sometimes we forget how much we take DVRs for granted. Someone was over Sunday and we were watching NASCAR on DirecTV. At one point I hit rewind to show a wreck and my she remarked "Now I know why people like DVRs." Along the same line, mom is amazed when I pause a show for dinner and pick back up when we're ready to watch it.

[daveak]

Why FF when you can 30 sec skip?

[jsmeeker]

Originally Posted by daveak

Why FF when you can 30 sec skip?

for 30 skip to work well, you have to start right as the commercial break starts, plus you have to hope that the commercials are all 30 seconds or 1 minute and that there aren't any gaps between them or anything extra.

[DianaMo]

If you notice, some commercials are using big signs in their ads so even if you're fast forwarding thru, they're still communicating to you.

It seems that older folks like the time shifting ability of the Tivo/PVR's, however they don't always have the manual dexterity to FF thru the commercials.

What would you think of an OPT OUT option for specific categories of commercials for those who really should avoid certain ads? For instance, alcoholics being able to opt out of beer ads and yet still be able to watch sporting events.

Originally Posted by Steveknj

The networks are beginning to understand and embrace DVR usage:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/02/bu...er=rss&emc=rss

[cheesesteak]

I'd like to opt out of the male enhancement and prostate ads but then there'd be nothing but beer ads and blank space during sports.

[Steveknj]

Funny I thought this thread would go differently. What I was impressed with, was that shows with middling ratings watching live, like Fringe or Heroes are getting strong ratings when you use the live + DVR ratings.

[steve614]

Originally Posted by jsmeeker

for 30 skip to work well, you have to start right as the commercial break starts, plus you have to hope that the commercials are all 30 seconds or 1 minute and that there aren't any gaps between them or anything extra.

That is what the 8 second skip back button is for.

[AJRitz]

Originally Posted by vman41

I'll actually watch an interesting/entertaining commercial once or twice, but will skip over it the next 300 times.

This.

Originally Posted by tiassa

I'm with vman -- I've even "backed up" to watch an interesting commercial on occasion.

This.

Originally Posted by jsmeeker

I've been using a TiVo for over 8 years. And sometimes I forget to start to fast forward through a commerical.

I might be watching TV while doing something else (like eating, posting here, etc.) and just forget to findthe remote and zip through something.

This.

Originally Posted by steve614

That is what the 8 second skip back button is for.

And this. I've even used the quick replay button to catch all of a commercial that I'd 30-sec skipped over, see the end of, and want to see the whole thing. This is especially true of things like movie trailers, which are some of the largest TV ad buyers (hence the frequent Thursday evening schedule logjam).

[DevdogAZ]

Originally Posted by Steveknj

Funny I thought this thread would go differently. What I was impressed with, was that shows with middling ratings watching live, like Fringe or Heroes are getting strong ratings when you use the live + DVR ratings.

Actually, if you check out this article from TVbythenumbers.com, they actually take this NY Times article to task, because it completely misstates the effect of DVR use on the ratings. Their point is that the supposed increases that the NYT article is touting are over numbers that nobody uses anymore.

Here's the deal: When you see the ratings for a TV show the next day, that number includes both live viewers, and those who watched the show on their DVR, VCR, etc. anytime before 3:00 a.m. Those ratings are called Live + SD (Same Day) and that's the number that gets reported most often in the media.

All those increases for commercial viewing touted by Carter (via broadcast PR flacks) are all vs. LIVE viewing, not vs. LIVE+SD viewing.

Everyone is used to program ratings increases from “DVR viewing” being defined as the increase from Live+SD program ratings (which is available the day after a show airs) to Live+7 day program ratings (available about two weeks after a show airs), so people will point to this article by Carter and claim “See that increase from DVR viewing really *does* boost commercial viewing, it must be helping my show!” Sadly, that’s mostly wrong.

In fact there is almost no increase in commercial ratings after the Live+SD period.

In a recent conversation with a researcher at a broadcast network, I asked him “Given the fact that the public (and us) sees only Live+SD and Live+7 program ratings on a regular basis, how much of the increase between those two numbers could be assumed to benefit C+3 commercial ratings?”

His answer? 10%

So that 40% increase in program ratings from Live+SD to Live+7 for Dollhouse? It helped advertising revenue by 4%.

Not exactly time to break out the champagne.

[TAsunder]

So, basically, people who still treat TV shows as appointment TV are watching commercials on their DVRs, and people who treat it more like youtube or a video store and starting from their now playing lists aren't or something? I can't come up with another explanation for the sharp cutoff after 3am.

[AJRitz]

Originally Posted by TAsunder

So, basically, people who still treat TV shows as appointment TV are watching commercials on their DVRs, and people who treat it more like youtube or a video store and starting from their now playing lists aren't or something? I can't come up with another explanation for the sharp cutoff after 3am.

I believe that the 3 a.m. cutoff is based on a presumption that the number of viewers on the day of broadcast is more valuable to advertisers than the overall number of viewers. Ad campaigns are (usually) carefully timed, especially when they're national campaigns. As such, the advertisers don't care as much if you watched a show (and even watched every minute of every commercial) two weeks after its initial broadcast.

[TAsunder]

Originally Posted by AJRitz

I believe that the 3 a.m. cutoff is based on a presumption that the number of viewers on the day of broadcast is more valuable to advertisers than the overall number of viewers. Ad campaigns are (usually) carefully timed, especially when they're national campaigns. As such, the advertisers don't care as much if you watched a show (and even watched every minute of every commercial) two weeks after its initial broadcast.

Right, but what surprises me is that they are right in ways not described above. I would think that DVR viewers are DVR viewers and wouldn't tend to watch commercials more on the day of than not the day of. I can only assume it has to do with their fundamental mental model of the DVR.